'AITA for how I'm addressing a disgruntled team member who saw everyone's salaries?' UPDATED 4X

"How do I address a disgruntled team member, who accidentally saw everyone's salaries? AITA?"

TL;DR - Bookkeeper saw everyone's salary on accident, extremely disgruntled and feels undervalued, but she's unconfident she get another finance/accounting job outside -- and CEO refuses to give her the raise I believe she deserves. I work at a mid-sized industry S Corp in as a controller, and after two years of toiling with the owner, finally convinced him to hire some staff for the finance department.

Currently have a finance manager, Jr. accountant, and bookkeeper in my team, all of which do an amazing job considering the circumstances we're expected to meet. CEO is a massive senile idiot, who undervalues the finance department and think we're all a waste.

He complains the department is too large, when he expects us to not only work on main parent company, but also his three subsidiaries -- one of which is in SA and a major headache to balance each month. Our bookkeeper (25F) only has an associates in accounting per her agreed contract to educate herself as she works. She's extremely driven, catch a lot of finer details, and a studious worker.

It's also a bonus she's always willing to put on more work, and wants to learn from everyone. However, while grabbing stuff from the main workhorse printer, she saw HR's payroll timesheet and saw everyone's salary. I've been trying to convince the CEO during this year's review to raise her salary from $50k to $60k, as well as maybe get her a title promotion to accounting assistant.

She's genuinely a huge asset to our day-to-day, but CEO refuses to acknowledge her merits. I keep telling her I'm desperately trying to boost her wage, but I can see her getting depressed -- worst part is she's not confident she can compete in the job market right now until she at least has her BSA. Any advice on how to coach her? I genuinely feel sorry for her and think she's a tremendous worker.

Not long after posting, OP shared two updates.

Edit: We're a fairly profitable company, but CEO refuses to reinvest into the businesses. So we have more than enough room to raise her (and honestly quite a few other's salaries), but he's a moron set on the mindset that finance department is useless.

Edit #2: Thanks everyone for the advice and being a place to bounce thoughts off of. I'll try to make an update post next week since I had the meeting with HR and our upper management about it.

The internet kept it real in the comments.

LonelyMechanic94 wrote:

Just be her reference. Help her get out of this sh- hole by hyping her up to other employers.

I'm sure at your position you may have some connections.

OP responded:

That's the hard part... I keep encouraging her and giving her positive affirmation that she'll succeed no matter where she applies herself -- especially within accounting since she has a great niche for it (particularly in the tax prep side).

But she's very soft, and I'm not saying that in a negative light. It took me well over a year to break her out of her shell and actually apply herself, and speak up. I've told her if she truly wishes to leave, I'll vouch as a reference and also see if I can set her up with opportunities -- but she won't bite. She's that genuinely rattled that she's (her own words) "not going to make it in her current educational status."

probablyaloser1 wrote:

I'm a student and might not know what I'm talking about. But I think if you were my boss, and explained that getting me a raise/title change was truly out of your hands, but offered to be a reference for other jobs and maybe mentor me/advise me on how to move forward in my career, I'd be able to get over feeling undervalued.

Just my perspective. I think that's probably about all you can do if your boss won't budge on a raise. NTA.

OP responded:

Thanks for the confidence booster, and I'm hoping she didn't take my offering her a reference and other opportunities the wrong way (guess I'll find out tomorrow since we have a team lunch).

fractionalbookkeeper wrote:

You should fire the HR staff who printed everyone's salary and left it at the printer. Then use those savings in payroll to give the bookkeeper a raise if she deserves it as you suggest.

OP responded:

I had a meeting with the HR staff about two hours ago. They kept writing it off as an honest mistake and "apologized" to the bookkeeper for the situation. I'm also setting up a meeting between the CEO, CFO, myself, and HR to discuss the impact of this situation, and how f-king reckless them using the main printer (WHEN THEY HAVE THEIR OWN) was...

[deleted] wrote:

I just about spit out my coffee. Sounds like my workplace almost exactly. If her salary is on par with the going rate for her skills there's not much you can do. If you can make a case for a raise by giving a market analysis and maybe comparing the cost for training a new hire.

I will say, due to my department being undervalued, the CEO crapping all over our work, I started looking elsewhere. The wage and proximity to home was the only thing that made me stay for as long as I did.

OP responded:

So when she started, it was actually $45k (below avg in PA). After her 3rd month, I saw her aptitude for picking up accounting principles was pretty quick, so after her first year I bumped it by $5k.

Unfortunately, she doesn't have any benefits like being close to home etc. Her commute is 45 mins on the short end, and while her education is fully reimbursed (as long as she gets an A), she's only able to take 1 or 2 classes a semester. So for her to get to her confident level (BSA), it would still take her around 4 years at this rate...

Zeyn1 wrote:

Going to come at this two ways.

No idea the market rate for a bookkeeper with her experience, but that salary doesn't sound bad. It is perfectly livable in the majority of the country.

She's also getting a lot of benefits. She has a great teacher (you) to give her practical experience and mentorship. She is getting school paid for which is easily another $5-10k per year even for one class. You should have come with that attitude. Saying "I know you're underpaid" just tells someone they are underpaid.

Should have had said that they get all these benefits and work experience they can use to qualify for a higher paying roll. Then in the background fight for bigger annual raise. Off cycle raises should not be expected. That also means that you can give an off cycle raise when you really want to show how valuable someone is.

abject_natural wrote:

Not your problem if the kid is lazy and doesnt want to apply to other jobs. Work her and call it a day bc what other options do you have? CEO just laughs at you without you realizing it.

OP responded:

For right now, I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt and believe her that it's genuine lack of confidence than laziness. As for the CEO laughing at me, that's fine. He knows as much as the CFO does that the moment I walk, this company (and his three subsidiaries) are going to crumble. CFO just takes the credit, but she knows she's nothing without me spoon feeding her every little detail.

Eight days later, OP shared another update.

So last Friday, I had a meeting with the CEO, CFO, HR, and myself to address the idiot HR manager using the main copier to print payroll timesheets. The meeting itself went...awry, with my focal initiative being centered on addressing lack of compliance to policy, and leak of confidential payroll details -- leading to immediate consequences of disgruntled employees (apparently not just my bookkeeper saw it, but a few others as well).

So the HR manager "profusely" apologized and the CEO basically kept excusing her lack of discipline. The CFO and I already laid out a game plan prior to the meeting, so we discussed how the bookkeeper is disgruntled and it's beginning to affect her commitment here -- highlighting that she's a valuable asset and human resource to the finance department, and company overall.

CEO asked what my proposed solution was and I brought that with this year's review for 2023, we give her a title promotion to staff accountant/Jr. accountant.

This would then give more validity to raising her salary from $50,000 to $60,000 to match market rate in PA (on the min range), and help retain her dedication and excite her requirement to gain advanced education (BSA and beyond). This is where s--t hit the fan...HR manager says that's not a reasonable proposal and tries to convince the CEO to basically shut this whole meeting down.

CEO, being senile and already having a negative opinion on the finance department, was easily getting swayed and kept asking for the CFO's opinion. CFO, being a massive kiss-a-s, tried to play both sides because he's aware that he can't afford to anger the CEO or myself (since I basically do all of his work anyways...).

HR manager then pulls an extremely childish, borderline insulting, move: "if she's so valuable, why not forgo part of your own bonus for the 2023 review and give it to her?"

Here's the thing: I'm very fortunate to be considered a valuable member of this company, and my annual salary and bonuses are pretty high (even though I'm still below market avg. for controller). I also receive an incentive pay for working on the CEO's other three subsidiaries -- which I could cover the $10,000 raise that I'm proposing for my bookkeeper.

As I am also underpaid, I also work my butt off for those bonuses and incentives, and unsure if that's 1) even legal and 2) a viable way to sustain a staff's pay. HR basically just told me to pay my own team's salary, which I'm still pretty aghast they would recommend such action. I didn't provide an answer yet, and luckily the meeting concluded since the CEO had a prior engagement to attend to.

My bookkeeper is still at the company, but it's pretty obvious her confidence and vibrant energy is gone. I haven't told her about the details of the meeting, but I can tell she's anticipating an update. Genuinely she's a great worker and I would love to keep her at the company, so I can continue working with her and developing her accounting career...

This is my first time encountering a situation like this in management, so I'm unsure what the move is here. If anyone can provide some advice, that would be greatly appreciated.

People did not hold back one bit.

omgwthwgfo wrote:

Sounds like both you and the bookkeeper need to start looking for a new job.

OP responded:

Maybe I'll open my own firm 🤷‍♂️

JLandis84 wrote:

That’s way too much talking over the simple fact your company doesn’t really care about you or the bookkeeper.

Also, your CEO likely is not senile. They just don’t f-king care about this.

bigfatfurrytexan wrote:

HR manager f-ed up and wants you to pull cash out of your pocket to fix it for them?

Man, f- all those people. For real. I'm pissed off for you.

Start applying and poach the bookkeeper when you leave.

Bigham1745 wrote:

I’d leave a place like this so so so fast. Your boss can’t wholeheartedly have your back in a situation that you have a clear reasonable answer too? Peace out!

Four days later, OP shared another update.

TL;DR - CEO refused offer, told me to basically pay her instead, I decided I would because I truly value her, told bookkeeper about it and it made her more disgruntled, she ended up quitting...I am shattered emotionally and mentally, and I feel like I failed as her manager.

I'd first like to say thanks to everyone in this sub for their genuine comments regarding the matter. I've worked in accounting for roughly 6-7 years thus far, but only 2-3 in a management/controller position.

This situation overall, and the feedback from multiple people, has honestly been an essential learning experience, so thank you. CEO, CFO, and I had a final meeting while working on Saturday (we sometimes work Sat's with OT pay, only until 11 AM so WH workers can catch up on orders).

Basically, the CEO said he can't do $10k and a title promotion for someone who doesn't even have their BSA. CFO and I argued back saying she's MORE than qualified in accounting experience, and that I personally gauge her around the same level as a staff accountant.

CEO, pretty disgruntled, said he won't do it and that a $4,000 raise was all he could do for her -- and then he went with HR's retort and said "if she has that much potential, then YOU (me) can pay her that bonus..." While I do think this is an overall win, I had a feeling my bookkeeper wouldn't be very happy with an 8% raise.

Many people have voiced that my bookkeeper may be asking too much, but as her manager I truly do value her discipline, work ethic, and development thus far. So on the drive home, I steeled myself to basically cut $6,000 of my bonus and provide it on-top, so she can earn that $10k raise. Fast forward to today, I had a meeting with my bookkeeper in the morning and told her about the results of the review.

She was definitely not happy, and grew even more disgruntled at the fact that I was giving her part of my bonus. Maybe I am still too green but I wanted to be honest with her. I was hoping that if I tell her that I'm willing to pay part of her bonus, she would feel that even if the company doesn't value her, that I still do.

I guess it had the inverse effect on her, as she started crying and thought herself as even more of a burden. I told her that if she needed, she could take as much time as she wanted to think about the offer, and no matter her choice I'll support her. About 20 mins after the meeting, she asked if we could have a follow-up meeting.

Moment we get in, she bursts into tears again. She starts profusely apologizing for not meeting standards, that she felt like a burden, that she caused me so much trouble arguing with HR and CEO, and that she was formally quitting as of today. I tried to tell her that I do not blame her, nor think she is unqualified (because I meant it), to try and calm her down.

I tried to defuse the situation best I could, by telling her I'm not giving up on her review and that I'm still pushing etc...but nada. She left as of about 20 mins ago writing this post. Last thing she asked me was if I could help her update/revise her CV, and if I could get in contact with my network/connections -- to which I told her of f-ing course. I'm writing this on my early lunch break because I'm f-ing shattered.

I know I can only provide her some connections, and maybe a great recommendation letter, but I genuinely feel like I let her down. This is a crushing defeat for me, and I'm pretty exhausted trying to cope with it as it's my first time in management dealing with this. I couldn't do it guys, and it's the worst f-king gut feeling I've ever experienced in a long time.

Commenters kept it real.

argentina_turner wrote:

That sucks. Sounds like you didn’t fail anyone here. The leadership put you in a no win a position, and in doing so revealed how much they value you, your team, and your function as part of the business. The real question is what is your next move?

OP responded:

I've never stared at my CV this long in my life. I'm contemplating leaving, but going to first entertain the idea by looking at job postings in the tri-state. And I appreciate the kind words, but this was a great learning opportunity for me -- albeit in hindsight I'm extremely bitter about losing such a talented staff member.

esteemedr-tard wrote:

Yet another case of executives throwing a fit over $6k/year increase to payroll at a company that presumably makes millions a year.

OP responded:

The main parent company alone makes double figure millions in profit a year. For a mid-sized S Corp, it does VERY well. It's genuinely disheartening.

nodesign89 wrote:

I really hope you’re looking for a new job now, what an absolute garbage CEO and HR head.

Please don’t feel down on yourself, you did everything you could have and more.

OP responded:

Took a few glances at my CV during my early lunch on my phone. Might do some job surfing later tonight to entertain the idea...

And thank you. After reading some other comments, I've come to realize I made some big hiccups that exasperated the issue.

Turlututu1 wrote:

Open feedback: as a manager, you shouldn't have told that much. Being a manager is not simply being transparent to those around you, but more being transparent while filtering the noise/reformulating bad news. It's also about putting things into perspective, especially for new/young hires.

You could have presented the 4K raise for the bookkeeper as a win with an incentive to have them get their degree: "Here's already 4K, and we can discuss compensation further once you get your degree."

If you really insisted on getting her 10K while axing your own bonus, you should have never told her where it comes from. In essence, you guilt-tripped her. There was no reason to give her the full explanation in that case.

From my perspective, you were too empathetic with your employee. Remember: they had already gotten a hefty raise after only a year or two within the company (and I remind everyone here they're only 25), are yet to have a degree and then you get her another 8% while her title or education hasn't evolved?

You should have put things into perspective and rationalized the situation. Instead you've pressured your employee into re-thinking their career choice, and feeling guilty about getting a raise since you explicitly told her it comes at your cost.

OP responded:

I appreciate the feedback. I guess I did begin taking a more subjective stance on the situation, as I tend to pride myself in trying to be a "good" team manager.

That's entirely fair criticism, and I can now see the value of how a white lie may have preventing me from guilt tripping her. I intended it to be more of a "fuck the company, you're great to me" message, but I think I read her stance wrong. Thanks for the drilldown, this is honestly great.

retromullet wrote:

There's a good chance this won't be well received, but this is my genuine "how to play office politics" opinion and I'm not trying to be contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. You should NEVER have let the data leak of the compensation be the foundation for your discussion with senior management regarding why you were seeking a compensation increase for this individual.

You let the emotion of your employee drive your approach and attitude and as a result lost an employee. Senior management will never reward a battle of the wills on principle, and if they even slightly perceive someone is trying to use leverage against them they will cut you off at the knees no matter how important you think you are.

What I think may have been more advantageous for you to do as manager would be to insulate the employee from allowing their emotion getting to senior management, reassure them you'll do everything you can within normal process and procedures and timelines to get them a compensation increase, and then when it's time for budgeting and raises make a hard push based on that employee's experience.

I know you've been trying previously, but thinking that somehow an employee finding proprietary information is a good reason to advocate for a comp increase is just a bad idea.

I understand there's the "well they were undercompensated," "well management was horrible people," "well capitalism is evil," and all that, I get it, I'm not disagreeing leadership isn't being terrible, but unfortunately I don't think the leak of information should've ever been brought up in the same conversation with this employee.

I think you should've insulated your bookkeeper from being tied to that information, and instead put up a fight through normal channels on the normal timeline as you'd have a far greater chance at success.

You're getting too emotionally tied to your employee. It makes you act out of emotion rather than what's best for them in the confines of what is ultimately a dictatorship. It's a hard lesson to learn going from employee to manager as it feels counter-instinctual.

OP responded:

This is a hard pill to swallow for me, and I'm going to need a crap ton of water for it. I do agree that remaining objective, and keeping certain details out of reach, is now the right move. Not to excuse my performance as a manager, but the reason I attach subjective values to my team is because I disliked the management style of my previous bosses/managers.

B4 aside, other firms tend to lack the balance between investing in an asset vs. investing in a human. I found that my coaching and development side heavily leaned towards getting to know, and treat my team members, like actual people.

This, now in hindsight, leads to some inevitable results like this situation currently. I tried to reciprocate my bookkeeper's honest merit with a figure that was partially decided with subjectivity. So I get now where my managing style falls short -- or at least had a harsh glimpse at what happens.

Acoconutting wrote:

What kind of company do you work for where your HR manager has any say on compensation off the cuff, your CEO takes multiple meetings to negotiate down $6k of a salary lmao. What a waste of time. Does this person literally drive no value to the business? Insane.

OP responded:

Since last year, our CEO decided to bring HR as an "impartial" party to the review. So they collect the review packets from our department managers, and then "review" that. It's confusing on both ends because 1) how will an HR manager know the workload and importance of said workload of different departments, and 2) how is it impartial when they see everyone's salary...