'AITA for 'gossiping' with my mum about my brother's fiance who potentially lied about giving birth?' MAJOR UPDATE
"AITA for 'gossiping' with my mum about my brother's fiance potentially lying about giving birth?"
I (22f) have an older brother (John-32m) who has been with his fiancé (Jane-30f) for 4 years. They have a 4 month old. Jane found out she was pregnant at 5 and a half weeks and immediately called my mum to tell her. Mum was confused, but still very excited. Jane said she was going to tell John when he got back from his work trip.
A few hours later, she called again, sobbing, saying she has ‘insatiable cravings’. Mum made a joke like ‘isn’t it a bit early for cravings?’ and Jane went OFF on her. She started yelling about how this was ‘her pregnancy’ and no one else’s. It was an odd reaction.
She also apologised for her outburst by blaming it on hormones. When my brother returned from his trip, him and Jane left to stay at her mother’s and we didn’t see her until after the baby was born. John said this was because Jane was afraid of losing the pregnancy and wanted to be with her mum and we needed to respect boundaries.
Whenever someone would ask about Jane or the baby, they would shut it down with vague answers like ‘Every pregnancy is different’ or ‘She’s carrying small, which isn’t unusual’. They barely shared anything about the pregnancy. No ultrasound pictures, no baby shower, and Jane didn’t want anyone around during the delivery.
I also discovered that every craving she listed, came from one article about pregnancy cravings (she even listed multiple items in the same order as the article).
When the baby was born, we were finally allowed to see Jane and John (and baby of course).
It was very bittersweet as we all wished we could have been there for Jane to help out, but Jane and John both reassured us that we did help out by staying away during the pregnancy. The weirdest part though, is how Jane describes the birth. She claims she had an epidural via IV drip into her HAND (edited bc I didn't elaborate--)…which is NOT how those are administered.
When I asked clarifying questions (thinking she had gotten confused, which is understandable) she shut down and refused to answer, like how she would during the pregnancy. She said the baby had 'latching issues' because he was born with no umbilical cord stump. This can technically happen, but it’s a rare and fatal medical condition that their baby does not have.
The final straw was when she told us that the baby ‘basically fell out of her’ within an hour of being in labour, despite my brother telling us how hard the birth was (and even stating that was why they weren’t going to try for any more kids). Mum is on the same side as me, and has been noting this inconsistencies and inaccuracies but doesn’t know how to bring it up.
And their reactions don’t help. A few days ago, my brother text mum saying her doubt of Jane is disrespectful and they both want full apologies from the both of us for 'bullying' Jane about her pregnancy/labour. I haven't made any outright accusations about it, nor have I said any of this to Jane. I've only asked questions when she brings the birth/pregnancy up. AITA for having doubts?
Commenters quickly jumped on with their thoughts.
Ambitious-Border-906 wrote:
The reality is that nothing much adds up, but there is one reality you can buy into: Your brother and his fiancée have a baby that is theirs. You can remain out of their lives forever or let your obsession go & enjoy your niece/nephew. Your choice but you would be an AH if you chose option one!
ProfessorYaffle1 wrote:
Why do you feel you need to 'bring it up' at all? YES, she may well be misremembering medical details and/or exaggerating but it doesn't sound as though any of the things she has said are dangerous.
For instance- cravings - symptoms can be heavily influenced by a person's state of mind, it's entirely plausible that if she had been reading about pregnancy and was keyed up about her own that she might have genuine cravings even if she was influenced by what she read .. It doesn't seem much different to situations where a pregnant person's spouse / partner develops pregnancy symptoms.
Assuming that an IV or pain relief given during labour was an epidural doesn't sound particularly surprising, if the association she has with the term is that epidural = pain relief for labour (its also possible she had both, of course).
Similarly, pain, and hormones, and medication can all screw with your perception, not to mention things such as short term memory- if her perception is that the birth was quick, that may well be subjectively true.
By all means keep in mind that she may not be a reliable narrator, particularly if it comes to medical matters, but other than that, just enjoy your nibling. This is not a situation where you need to prove her wrong or set her right, and YTA if you continue to gossip. (Also, why jump to 'lying,' which implies ill intent?)
OP responded:
"Also, why jump to 'lying' , which implies ill intent?"
Because their stories change...one day the labour was a gruelling, touch-and-go 24 hours and the next day it was 'he just slipped out I didn't even feel it! The labour was an hour or 2 max'.
One day it's 'I had an epidural given via IV drip in my hand' and the next it's "it was so quick and easy, I didn't need any pain meds."
One day it's 'he was born without an umbilical cord stump so he doesn't latch easily' and the next it's 'he was born 100% healthy."
Everything about it changes on a day to day basis while my brother and SIL try to insist there's nothing weird going on and anyone who merely questions these changes is a 'gossip bully'. I'm trying to be nice here and not imply ill intent but when they jump down your throat for asking how much the baby weighed, it's hard not to.
LucyB823 wrote:
YTA. Sounds like they adopted a baby but are too scared to tell you (but not afraid to tell her side of the family) because you might judge them. Welcome the baby and stop being nosy. It’s really none of your business.
OP responded:
I mean I was adopted and John is a surrogate baby so I'm unsure about that part.
ihavegreeneyezs wrote:
I’m not sure about this one. There are a few options. Maybe they adopted/used a surrogate and didn’t want to tell you. Maybe she is riddled with Munchausens and the whole story is extra and not true. Or maybe she is telling the truth. At the end of the day you know the baby, their baby, is here and real. I wouldn’t focus on the ifs, but on the new addition to your family.
A little over three weeks later, OP shared an update.
Well...I was right to have questions. After I made my post I stopped talking to my mum about the pregnancy but things still didn't add up. Fast forward to my brother's birthday and the whole family was over at mum's. Our aunts, uncles, cousins and older brother were all guests.
During the party, Jane mentioned how the baby had BSA and our aunt called her out on it (she's a maternity nurse). It caused a HUGE argument where Jane and John left in a rage. But it turns out that Jane didn't give birth. The baby is actually a product of my brother's affair. He had been cheating on Jane with some woman for about 6 months before she got pregnant.
Apparently, Jane and John offered her a lump sum of £25,000 for her to allow them to adopt the baby when it was born and to never interact with the baby or their family ever again. They didn't want this cheating to be found out so they pretended Jane was pregnant and moved away (Jane's mum was in on the whole thing).
The kicker? This all came out because the woman John had the affair with decided she wanted her baby back. Apparently, she hadn’t been fully informed about the agreement’s legal implications, and she felt pressured to sign it in the first place (she also barely speaks English and the 'contract' was all English). She’s now pursuing legal action against Jane and John to get full custody of the baby.
She said she waited this long because she was afraid of her immigrant status getting in the way. All their closed-off answers and refusal to engage was because they were afraid of this coming out. Apparently, Jane was terrified of someone noticing the baby's eyes (green). John and Jane both have blue eyes but Lucy has green eyes.
Things have gone to absolute s#$t. The whole situation is bigger than anything I could have imagined. I won't be updating unless something else crazy happens. idk if this was a sign to keep trusting my gut but damn. I'll be logging off in a few hours. Thanks to everyone :)
The internet did not hold back their thoughts and concerns one bit.
RuinBeginning776 wrote:
You need to get your SIL out of that toxic relationship ASAP!! Help that girl wake up!!!
OP responded:
I mean they both orchestrated taking advantage of the woman...they're made for each other.
Severe-Quarter_3639 wrote:
Why didn't they just say they will adopt a baby?????
OP responded:
Well that's what they did under the guise of tricking the woman. I don't know what the contract said exactly, but from what I know, my brother told her she'd be able to see the baby but the contract said that by taking the £25,000 she'd never see her baby or my brother/his extended family ever again. I feel awful for her and I hope she can recover and get her baby back.
stellabluebear wrote:
Yikes. I hope that poor woman gets her baby back. In the US at least, there's a visa for people who report a crime and cooperate with prosecuting the perpetrator. It's frequently used for DV.
We don't know the details and whether they can be charged with a crime given the "contract." Maybe something like criminal coercion? In any case, I hope mama and baby are reunited and thrive together. Sorry you have to deal with the family mess OP.
OP responded:
We're in the UK where paid surrogacy is illegal unless it's for reasonable expenses (for example, buying your surrogacy maternity clothes is legal, paying them a lump sum of £25,000 is not). That's not even getting into the fact that they tricked her and didn't even attempt to provide a translator, a contract in her language, anything.
Pictureinmymind wrote:
Well, that was to be expected. I don’t know what else to say so I’ll say I always thought you were unfairly ganged up on on your previous post. And yeah, your brother and Jane will get what’s coming for them, I’m curious what will happen to their relationship though. You would think Jane would have left him long ago, but she’s obviously as wicked as he is.