'AITA for refusing to give my former son a second chance? He pushed me out of his life.' MAJOR UPDATE

"AITA for refusing to give my former son a second chance?"

I (48m) find out my ex (49f) had cheated on me and that the two children she had given birth to (23f and 21m) only one the girl was mine. I filed for divorce and my ex tried for reconciliation, but I couldn't live with so much doubt. Once we got to court it was like a switch had flipped and she tried to keep me from the children. It didn't work though, I had really good lawyers.

In spite of everything I was willing to still be a father to Noah (fake name), but my ex can be very manipulative. She told Noah about his "real dad" and even introduced them. Since then I became "strict fake dad" while he was "cool real dad." When Noah was 13 he told me that he no longer wanted to see me and that he'd tell a judge the same thing if I forced visitation.

I asked him why and if I ever made him feel bad. Noah just said that he wanted to spend more time with his real dad and didn't like my house rules. I was heartbroken but I let him go and still made attempts to keep the relationship. I called, texted, sent presents and even invited him to events. Noah wouldn't respond or pass small messages to his sister.

When Noah was 18 he legally changed his surname to his father's and told me "there's wasn't enough room for me" to attend his graduation. After that I gave up and resolved myself to live life with being a father to my daughter and son (12m) via my second wife. Recently, Noah reached out to me and apologized for his past actions and wanted a relationship again.

I was surprised and heavily skeptical, and was right to be so. Apparently, Noah's real dad got married and his wife gave him an ultimatum and he chose her. I told Noah that while I am sorry for what happened to him I had no interest in being treated like an old pair of gloves that you only think about about and wear when it gets cold.

My ex thinks I'm being hurtful and petty, rich coming from her, and my daughter says that she understands my pain but hopes that I can learn to give Noah a second chance. I just don't know because I'm in a place where I'm fine not having Noah in my life or having any communication with him, and I don't want to rekindle a relationship just for him to drop me again when his real dad changes his mind. AITA?

The internet had a lot to say in response.

Galaxy956 wrote:

NTA. While I completely understand everyone else's reasoning, I feel many are missing the most important point. Noah did not reach out because he saw the error of his ways/saw how his mother manipulated him against you. No, Noah is reaching out because his "real dad" tossed him aside.

While it is certainly possible that event open Noah's eyes, as outsiders its easy to just say "forgive him, he's just a kid." Being the person hurt it's not so easy to just do it when the event is making you feel like a backup plan in a any kind of relationship much less a father-son one.

Having said that while I wouldn't blame you for not accepting him at all, the most respectful thing (for everyone involved) would be to let the initial shock/anger subside, then arrange a meet up and talk to him. During that conversation hear him out and figure out for yourself, Is Noah reaching out because this opened his eyes or is it our of anger and resentment at his 'real dad' and using you as a replacement?"

OP responded:

I feel like I'm just a replacement, or worse a "holder" until his real dad changes his mind.

[deleted] wrote:

Do you think you could ask him what he would do if that happened...?

OP responded:

I have thought about asking him that, but I honestly do think I would believe him if he told me he was genuinely sorry and would still want a relationship with me regardless of whether his dad was in the picture or not. The name change was a big gesture against me.

zenev30 wrote:

NTA. His already 21 years old, he had plenty of time to reconnect with you but chose to do it now because his dad drop him. His mom may have manipulated him when he was a kid but he had plenty enough time to realized that when he became an adult.

Also, I don't get why his dad's wife would give his dad an ultimatum. His an adult, why an ultimatum was needed? Does he live with his dad? His dad paying for his expenses? If it's about money, then, sorry to say but his only trying to reconnect with you because of the money. Don't let anyone guilt trip you. Stay firm to what you want.

OP responded:

I honestly don't know why his dad was given an ultimatum. He literally stopped talking to me, directly, when he was a teen and then ceased all other form of contact once he was 18. He had to ask my daughter for my phone number.

tmss16 wrote:

Your son (because he is your son, he was for more than half of his life, you were in the hospital on the day he was born, you changed his diapers- you're his dad, like it or not 🙂) was a middle schooler when he decided to cut you out of his life.

I think maybe your interpretation of his motivations may not be correct. There's a pretty strong chance that when he saw that his bio dad would think nothing of giving up his relationship with him for a girl, it reminded him of the dad who never stopped trying to love him, even when he didn't really want that love and made him realize what he'd lost.

At 21, he's still very young and it sounds like he wants his dad back. Sure, it could end in the two of you yelling at each other and never speaking again, but there is also a very significant chance that this could be the start of rekindling a relationship. I don't think there would ever be a situation where you would say, "oh damn, I wish I hadn't reconnected with my long-lost son."

You're lucky in that it's only been 8 years. It will be much harder to reconnect if you reject him now (just like his bi dad did) and decide when he's 40 you'd actually like him in your life. I think it's fair to say that if the vast majority of seventh grade boys had a choice between a rules-and-stability dad or a fun-no-rules dad, they'd pick the second one.

Of course it hurt you, but I don't think it reveals some great moral failing of his. He was a young person grappling with the very traumatic fact that his identity changed when it came out that half of his DNA came from a completely different person than he thought.

Of the people who were traumatized by this paternity revelation, I would think his trauma would be equal to or even worse than yours, particularly since he was so young when it happened. So YWBTA for missing out on a chance to get your son back. And if it doesn't work out, that's okay, but at least you'll know.

OP responded:

Noah stopped thinking of me as his dad long before I stopped considering my son. So I want to ask can two people still be consider family if they stop thinking/treating each other as family and there's no blood relation?

my_liqour-ish_life wrote:

Of course they can. People choose their family all the time. My daughter still calls my ex-husband dad, even though he's technically no longer her stepdad, and she has a relationship with her bio dad. There's always room for more love. There's a lot of hurt on both sides of your situation, so reconciliation won't be exactly easy, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

OP responded:

But again, Noah choose to reject me, and I eventually got tired of being rejected and stopped thinking of him in that way. He's choosing me when it seems like he can't try for anyone else and I don't choose that.

You mention your daughter but she did at any point stopped calling your ex dad and then changed her mind later? Is her bio dad involved in any way and if he was would she still be calling your ex "dad?"

Two months later, OP shared an update.

First, I just wanted to say thank you to all the messages and comments in support. It really feel nice to have my feelings validated. After a lot of thought I decided to follow my wife's advice write an actual letter to Noah regardless of whether or not I intended to send it.

I explained to "Noah" how much he hurt me by refusing to see me, never inviting me to important events in his life, not wanting to meet or spend time with my son (via my new wife), and how legally changing his surname cut deep.

I also wrote that in spite of everything I still didn't take any pleasure in hearing about his father's rejection of him as I understand how hurtful that can be. I said that even though I knew he was young I was still angry over what he did and a part of me felt resentful towards all the time, love and money I spent on him when I technically didn't have to.

This letter felt very cleansing and I read it a couple of times before burning it. In the end I decided to reach out to Noah and asked my daughter for his new number, he changed it when he was 19 and didn't give me his new one.

I sent Noah a message reiterating how sorry I was at how his father treated but I was hurt how it felt like I was being treated as a last resort, and the circumstances of his desire to reconnect doesn't make me trust the relationship. I told him that I was willing to have some type of relationship with him again but only under these specific guidelines:

Don't call me "Dad" or refer to me as "father" in anyway. (We can readdress this in the future but right now it honestly feels too soon.)

Don't ever ask me for money. Co-signs for anything either (I'm not gonna be his personal ATM for any reason.)

You invite me to your things, I'll invite you to mine.

He's free to complain or talk about his bio dad with or around me but he needs to understand that I have no kind words for that man and will either say negative things or nothing at all.

I expect him to be nice to my son and (new) wife, and treat them with respect.

Don't go running to your mom in regards to information about my, my wife or son's lives as it's none of her business.

Don't go running to your mother or sister for any problems you have with me. We either talk about man to man or find someone else. (I don't want them trying to put themselves into our business.)

He needs to understand that going forward our relationship, if we continue to pursue one, is going to be different and will take more work on his end than mine as he is less of a priority to me now that he's an adult.

When I pass away the majority of my assets will be split between his sister and my son through my current wife and he will only be left the minimum requirement for him to not have grounds to sue. (Again, I'm not gonna be his Cash Cow).

The rest of you can agree or disagree but these are my terms if Noah wants any type of direct communication with me going forward, as this is the only way that I feel comfortable and how I believe I can protect myself if Noah ever becomes hurtful.

This will also be his last chance and if he disappoints me again then I am prepared to wash my hands of him because I have more to live for than just waiting to be loved by someone.

The internet continued to share their thoughts.

Fandragon wrote:

Can't blame OP for feeling hurt and wanting to protect himself from more hurt. I'd like to think they were able to get past this, but I feel like when a relationship has gotten to the point where people are sending itemized lists of what behaviors will or will not be tolerated, that relationship has gone past the sell-by date.

randomdude01 wrote:

Can’t have anything to say other than this is just depressing.

Hattix wrote:

Kid: "I don't want you in my life go away and I will lie to a judge if I have to"

OP: "Wow that's nasty"

Biodad: "I don't want you in my life go away."

Kid (now adult): "THIS IS UNFAIR I'M SUPPOSED TO DO THIS TO OTHER PEOPLE WHY IS IT HAPPENING TO ME"

That kid was all kinds of messed up.

GonePostalRoute wrote:

Way too obvious Noah went to OP because his bio dad ditched him… but what’s gonna happen if the bio dad comes back into the picture? I think we know.