'My coworker thinks we're using 'office politics' to bully her? It's her fault she's excluded.' UPDATED 3X

"Coworker [25F] thinks we [22F] [20 - 30 F/M] are using 'office politics' to bully her?"

I've been a high school girl, so I know bullying in the form of ostracization. But this is not the case. There are no "office politics" oppressing the victim. More or less, everyone in our office became close knit about 3 months ago. We were all in the same training class for a new branch in our company. After finishing training, majority of the people in the office felt comfortable exchanging Facebook info.

One person, Kathy [25F], told us all she didn't use Facebook. This was a lie because I had searched her name and found her before she stated this. It was an active and very public account, but I never outed her to the rest of the group. I believed it was her nice way of turning us down. I understood because not everyone is comfortable with work friends on their personal media.

Some weeks past and she lets it slip that she has a Facebook. Something about her dislike about her friends sharing stuff on her Feed. She was called out and she admitted she just didn't want to mix business with pleasure. Kathy didn't want work to get mixed with her personal life. Again, we understand.

So more months passed. And during said months, our group interacted outside of work. We went shopping together, had BBQ, movie nights, drank wine and watched Scandal, etc. And with this came inside jokes, more invitations, and emotional connections (?)

Last Monday, Kathy complained to me that our coworkers Brad and Joey were having a laugh during break. She was feeling left out, asked what was so funny. They said she just had to be there to get it. She asked them to say it anyway, and that she'd probably get it. They did through giggles and when Kathy didn't laugh, they repeated she just had to be there to get it.

When Kathy repeated the joke for me, I burst out laughing because it was an inside joke about something that happened at Joey's movie night. Kathy seemed hurt and went back to her desk. Today during break, Patrice asked our other coworker Nancy what she should bring to Scandal night.

This exchange happened in front of me and Kathy. Again Kathy piped up and asked what they were talking about. They explained that a few of us coworkers were getting together to watch Scandal and drink wine. Girl talk and stuff. They then started a conversation about the latest episode. Kathy pulled me to the side and asked if everyone was doing things without her. I told her yes.

She asked why she wasn't invited and I explained that it was because she told us she didn't want to mix business with pleasure. She still insisted it was rude not to ask and they were using "office politics" to b-lly her. She ranted about how she feels victimized and ostracized when she isn't included.

How do I explain it to her that her not being included is her fault and she can't force people to like/invite her?

TL;DR: Coworker doesn't want to mix personal life with work. She gets annoyed when everyone seems closer and does things outside of work without her.

EDIT: Bolded for emphasis since there is some confusion. Kathy has stated she doesn't want coworker interaction outside of work. Not just Facebook. Ever since Kathy found out everyone does interact outside of work, she's been very curious about my texting (on break or after work). She wants to know if I'm texting X coworker or doing to X's coworker's event.

The internet had a lot to say in response.

unxolve wrote:

Kathy's been using you as a flying monkey (an enabler/minion). Everyone else was on to her BS, so she sent YOU to go feed her ego/give her details they wouldn't trust her with. Don't let Kathy use you anymore.

Don't feed her any more information! 100% do not let her know people have seen the facebook, don't confront her, don't let her know about the HR investigation, DON'T SAY ANYTHING. Your time as an information source (and a flying monkey) is over.

Sukitup wrote:

Is this her first job post college? She may have been told by someone (parents, friends?) not to mix work and pleasure and just thought that's what people did in the) "real world" bit is now seeing that isn't the case and feels left out. Maybe ask her about it and see what she says? I just read the update, wow.

I usually try to think of situations from the non-posters point of view, but in this situation, Kathy's definitely not the young innocent woman I had dreamt up in my head. At this point, distance yourself from Kathy.

If she says anything just mentioned you've seen what she posts on facebook and that you'd rather not be a part of it. I don't think there is much you can do to get her to stop and it will have to come from HR.

deaniebop wrote:

I can see things from Kathy's side. When you start at a new office, you're not necessarily friends with everyone right away and you may not want all these new acquaintances privy to your Facebook if you're inherently a private person.

But you and your colleagues took that as "I never want to be friends ever", and went on to organise events without her and make in-jokes that exclude her, thereby ensuring she could never be friends ever. I believe that you don't mean it maliciously, but from her point of view it would seem like petty high school ostracising tactics.

[deleted] wrote:

You clearly don't want to invite her to things at this point, otherwise you'd have said "oh sorry Kathy, of course you can come to Scandal night!" You're excluding her, and you're insisting it's what she wants so that you don't have to be discrete about it.

You can argue with her about what she said in the past, but it's clear her feelings have changed, and now she wants to be included. If your desire to befriend her has changed, too, that's ok, but you should own it, and be respectful of her feelings. And making plans in front of someone you don't want to invite is just rude, in general.

OP responded:

I don't go to/host Scandal night so I can't really invite her (?). I don't host anything really. I'm not really owning it because I feel like idk, she should ask? She hasn't asked at all to be included but instead complains to me. The person who doesn't really control the events. I can advise but that's all I can do.

[deleted] responded:

Inviting yourself to something you're not invited to is kind of rude and/or desperate. "She hasn't asked at all to be included but instead complains to me." Read between the lines. It sounds like she's asking without directly asking. You can't force others to invite her, obviously.

OP responded:

So is this an impasse? Coworkers don't want to invite her because they think she doesn't want to go due to previous stance. Kathy not wanting to ask to seem desperate/rude. I'm the only one with all the pieces. What should I do? Tell them her stance changed and see where it goes

[deleted] responded:

Yes, you should say that Kathy seemed sad that she wasn't included in group outings. While she may not have seemed interested in the past, her stance seems to have changed. We should start inviting her to events.

Soon after, OP jumped on with an update.

I talked my coworkers during our time before shift starts (usually a coffee and donuts thing for everyone). I phrased it so that it seemed like I was hurt by the group talking about Scandal night in front of me.

They understood and promised to keep that to themselves. I also stated that maybe next time me and Kathy could go. Nancy was confused and Brad was visually disagreeing/pissed. Apparently, Kathy lied to me about not being invited. Why, I don't know.

Nancy sent Kathy a FB message weeks ago. Nancy said that she was thinking about having a TV and wine night. She listed a few shows and asked Kathy which would like to watch. It took Kathy a few days to respond after reading it. In the response, she said she “had better things to do then drink cheap wine and watch trash TV.”

Also to not message her on FB again. I physically saw the message to confirm it wasn’t some fake screenshot. I asked Nancy why she didn’t tell us about this and she said it would make the workplace hostile. Brad also noted Kathy was a bitch and that I should just check out her Facebook. So I did and like before it's a very active and public account.

Apparently, for months she's been posting status (Kathy's Tea) about our workplace. Sometimes venting, sometimes actually harmful statements. One that really bothered Brad was when she took creepshots of everyone and posted that he was a fat N-word (hard r), something about Tyler Perry. He only found this out because one of Kathy's FB friends sent it to him.

I was also not left out as she posted a direct photo from my own social media and captioned it that I'm a bottle redhead who sets feminist back. There was something about Nancy's Scandal night, but she called it for desperate soccer moms and wannabe stepford wives. Brad said he didn't want to tell us because he went to HR and they haven't gotten back to him yet.

That they said though it counts as cyber bullying, it's her social media BUT she had her phone on the work floor (against the rules). So now I have all this information and confused on what to do. Kathy's been lying to me and very rude herself. But why would she lie to me? What her end game? I have about 4 hours until my break with Kathy. Should I confront her?

The comments kept coming.

finmeister wrote:

I was with you to the update. Like Kathy, I don't generally mix work life with personal life. I'm not against making friends at work (2 of my best friends are former coworkers), but I come to work to work, not have a social life. I have outside friends and family for that.

My reasons are 1) I'm an introvert. I find constant socializing draining 2) I have found hanging out with coworkers becomes an extension of the workday.

You inevitably talk about work because it's the 1 thing you have in common. I want to unplug and STOP thinking about work after work 3) My field is prone to "cattiness". Not having close personal relationships with coworkers seems to have been effective to keep me away from the cliques and the gossip.

That's not to say I'm just a bump who sits in the corner of the breakroom scowling. I usually end up with "work friends" that I talk and laugh and chat with at work but not outside. If they ask to add me to FB, I say either it's mostly for family and friends out of the area (true) and memes and pictures of my cats (also true).

I thought Kathy might be the same kind of person, or possibly someone with low self esteem who excludes herself before she can get rejected.

And then I read your update holy s#$T. If they don't fire her, you ought to quit because that is so not ok.

Buckeyegal923 wrote:

Holy s--t! By the time I got through that update, I had learned that Kathy is bat-s--t crazy. You and all of your coworkers need to go into full-on professional mode with her. Do not socialize with her. Do not talk about your work problems with her. Interact politely with her to the amount required by your job (making sure to never be rude/mean) and then just go about your day.

Kathy is not to be trusted. I don't even know the woman, but she is hardcore giving off those "I will totally throw you under the bus the second I get a chance" vibes. Report any weird behavior (including taking screenshots of the FB issues) to HR. I've had enough coworkers in my lifetime to know that something is stewing with this one and all of you need to CYA (cover your a--es).

K_Rad wrote:

Regarding your update, do not "confront" her. This can only lead to a fight and hostile work environment. Kathy is a hateful person who mocks all of you and uses slurs on a very public profile.

If I were you, I'd go to HR and tell them this situation, which will add to their current investigation. Get your other work friends who feel like you do to do the same. IMO, Kathy has done things that are a fireable offence.

The next day, OP shared another update.

So I didn’t confront Kathy during break. I didn’t even get to decide whether or not I wanted to because as soon as my break started, my Supervisor, Linda approached me. Linda explained that she knew Kathy reached out to me about the office clique.

Over lunch, she told a story about how something like this happened to her in high school, and that Kathy was reaching out to me to be her proxy. That she knows I don’t hold these events but I should speak on Kathy’s behalf. I said I understood when another Supervisor, Dan butted in.

Dan said Kathy also told him about the office problem, but he ignored it because he knew she has been invited. They discussed it among themselves and cited that people have used the company email to send out invites. This allowed the Supervisor to see the exchanges between everyone. Kathy had been invited and bluntly stated no to several things/not to waste her time.

Linda apologized to me and told me to forget about the Kathy issue but the core message still counts. When I went to the break room, Kathy made a bee line for me. She started questioning me about how my talk with the Supervisor went. How together we could take down the ageist office group and that we should get coffee after work.

I lied saying I had a family thing and went home. At home, I checked the reddit post and went back onto Kathy’s fb. There was a new post about how she was playing a little office prank on the office idiot. People commented her to “spill” but she didn’t update them. I feel like that was about me.

I started screen capping her posts, though only the ones that flat out bullied people. I felt like HR would care about those then any grey areas. Aside from the racist post about Brad, she made a post about a plan to sleep with a married coworker by getting him drunk. All of this has been weird. At work, Kathy is a professional, determined and a little head strong.

But in this field, thats a good thing. She gets good scores/reviews from clients. But now all I see is her posting vile things about people I care about. Calling it “TruthTea” then running to me like a victim of a make believe problem. I’m going to avoid her unless we’re on a project together. I don’t want to be her flying monkey. I don’t know what to believe from her anymore.

TL;DR: Didn't confront Kathy but she got a Supervisor to talk to me. We found out she was lying and now I'm avoiding her.

Edit: To answer someone who PM-ed me. Yes, I have high functioning autism. Yes, people at work know.

The internet continued to share their thoughts.

RememberKoomValley wrote:

She made a post about a plan to sleep with a married coworker by getting him drunk. You mean, to SA a coworker? To get him so drunk that she doesn't need to worry about consent? She's literally making an SA threat. That should go to HR immediately. And to the coworker in question.

OP responded:

I have sent HR an email about that. I'll probably get a response by tomorrow. I also texted the coworker and he's pissed.

OkapiFan wrote:

The real idiot is the person who makes Facebook posts announcing her nefarious plans.

OP responded:

I don't think she realizes her FB is public.

helendestroy wrote:

"Linda explained that she knew Kathy reached out to me about the office clique. Over lunch, she told a story about how something like this happened to her in high school, and that Kathy was reaching out to me to be her proxy. That she knows I don’t hold these events but I should speak on Kathy’s behalf."

This infuriated me so much. Good job Dan actually doing his job was there. Kathy sounds like an utter psycho. I'd keep a lot of distance from her.

OP responded:

I think Linda was saying what people on my last post were also saying. If someone wants to be included, regardless of their previous stance, I should stick up for them. No one likes feeling left out.

OP soon jumped on with yet another update.

HR emailed me back. They said they were calling Kathy into work this weekend. Since the office isn't open the weekends, it's clear she's in trouble. As advised from an earlier reply, I'm not going to check her FB anymore. Though watching the fall out would be nice/have a laugh, I would feel petty (?)

I don't think Linda was trying to force me to do anything. She understands that I don't get some social things (If you check out my last post/replies, I literally said Kathy should just ask to be included). She was just trying to explain it in a way I'd understand.

Edit 3: It looks like she was fired over the weekend. Her desk is empty but dented. I think she put up a fight because some coworker's desk decor are damaged.

I won't be checking her FB to see the fall out. I have blocked her and am hoping for the best.

The internet continued to share their thoughts.

TheQueenofDisco wrote:

I had a nasty co-worker who didn't realise that her facebook was open for everyone, I guess she thought only her friends could see what she posted. God, the things she would post were so nasty and unhinged. Meanwhile she would pretend to be nice while at work.

Cursd818 wrote:

There is no HR in the world that would ignore an employee publicly posting anything about their workplace because it's the employee's social media. The moment those initial posts were reported, she'd be done.

ecosynchronous wrote:

Neither wild horses nor God himself could have kept me from camping out on that Facebook page with a bowl of popcorn.