'I kept a diary to track my wife's affection towards me, and it's as bad as I tell her it is.' UPDATED 3X
"I kept a diary to track my wife's affection towards me, and it is as bad as I tell her it is."
I (34M) and my wife (43F) have been together for 16 years and married for 7. We have a 4-year-old daughter. After the first few years where my wife was very kind, present, loving, and affectionate, things have changed a lot: I rarely receive kisses from her, let alone hugs or kind words. She doesn’t ask how I am in the morning, let alone say good morning or good night. I am tired of this.
I have told her in every possible way that, as a man, I need these expressions of love to feel loved. Her excuse is that she is too stressed because of the child (but these things were happening even before our daughter was born) or that everything depends on my behavior towards her; every time, it always depends only on me.
When we argue about this, she says I’m exaggerating.
Tired of arguing about this for a year, I have recorded in a diary all her expressions of love over the past month. Here you see a screenshot.
I know it may seem exaggerated, but believe me, I am exhausted and don’t know how else to show her the lack of love I feel from her.
Can you tell me if you, who have a beautiful marriage and are deeply in love with your husband/wife, have so few demonstrations of affection during the month? What I don’t understand is that, s-xually, things are fine and we have sex 2-3 times a week, sometimes initiated by her.
I am fed up; I don’t feel loved as I would like, and I have lived like this for many years and now I can’t take it anymore. Please don’t get mad at me, everyone needs their own time to understand certain things, and I realized this over the past year.
I am a romantic, passionate, and attentive man.
Normally, I can give 5-6 hugs a day, kisses, compliments, surprises, and I can talk about anything and discuss things in different ways. However, being treated like this makes me shut down and withdraw because of the lack of reciprocity. I am seriously thinking of divorcing because I don’t feel heard or understood. I don’t see a person who understands and takes action to change the situation.
The internet had a lot of comments and questions to add.
GoldPeaco wrote:
"Or that everything depends on my behavior towards her"
Can you elaborate on this one?
OP responded:
Basically we're running in this circle until some months ago: I don't receive what I ask (affection) and I'm treated poorly so after a long time of patiently waiting for change I stonewall / get offended. We have a fight because of this.
She says she has enough of the stone walling and me being offended because it hurts her. We end the fight with me being the one that "swallows it" and try to let it go, I try to tell her what is causing this and to take action.
Time passes and we're again from the start. Some months ago I read about stonewalling and how bad it is so I ended it but still, it's really hard for me to get through this lack of affection. The problem is that I've been also treated very bad during this fights: yelled at, called names, divorce threatening by her side. I'm hurt on so many levels.
OceanPoet87 wrote:
What are you doing to love her back? I feel like the diary can backfire because it focuses your emotions on her actions rather than on what you can control.
OP responded:
The diary is about facts not my emotions, if I receive no hugs for 5 days in a row it's no hugs for 5 days in a row. I tell her I love her, I tell her how beautiful she is, I joke with her, I buy her preferred premium soda when I do groceries, I ask her how she feels when she's ill and I take care of her. But do I feel reciprocated? NAH.
[deleted] wrote:
I'm not saying you were immature for your age, but you were still an 18 year old. You can only be so mature at that age, you know? I'm saying she had to be very immature for her age because it doesn't make sense otherwise.
There had to be some manipulation there from her that you missed because you were an unassuming young man. Like you said, she had experience from previous relationships. She knew how to woo you in and get you to commit.
OP responded:
But again, if you're 27, young and beautiful, won't you be able to do the same to same age men like you or older? They also already have everything in their life.
[deleted] responded:
No, because older men have more experience too and are harder to manipulate. Maybe they didn't want her for a reason? Maybe they saw she didn't have enough to offer for a long-term relationship? I'm just guessing, only you know the truth.
OP responded:
So you think they already understood her lack of affection and attention for a long-term relationship? The issues I'm having right now? I always thought that she doesn't have respect for me because (also) of the age gap so she doesn't treat me well...
Anoncemmenter wrote:
When you think back to getting married, did she lack affection the majority of the marriage? If so, then yeah, I'd guess the other men probably noticed early on and didn't want to put up with it. If you feel she doesn't respect you, then that is a whole other problem do you feel she looks down on you?
OP responded:
Yep she did, I don't know how they were able to spot this.
Three days later, OP shared an update.
These days, after publishing the post, I've spent a lot of time reading online, watching reels, watching YouTube videos to better understand my situation, and thanks to one of these, I discovered the issue of Avoidant Attachment Style. I was stunned by how closely my wife fit the description, and I set out to thoroughly study the case.
I also identified other things I should do in my relationship: set clear boundaries, demand that my requests are understood, respected, and fulfilled, stand firm in my position, and if necessary, make it clear that I am willing to leave.
I showed the Excel sheet to my wife the next day.
Her first response was, "But yesterday we cuddled." I told her, "Look at the facts over the past month, there are things you never do and the few things you do are a result of my complaints or arguments. They’re not debatable, I’m sorry."
Then I told her what I discovered and how she fits into the case, I read her the main characteristics of these people and the types of traumas they have gone through in their lives. I explained to her (knowing her personal family story) that this was mainly thanks to the ab-se she received when she was a kid from her parents.
My wife was stunned and listened, then asked me, "So what should I do to solve this?" My answer was "I don't know" because I really don't know. The thing I do know, and what I told her, is that these problems were generated in her childhood and need to be addressed now.
I'm now informing myself about the options available to solve or at least alleviate these issues. Sadly we have difficult schedules so a therapist is now off the table. During the day I cried a lot because finally, after 16 years, I understood why we had these problems.
A strong sadness came over me because I recalled all the situations where I was treated badly, with indifference, and did not receive the affection I wanted. I also remembered all the lies and manipulations used over time to cover up her shortcomings. I think the first step is to focus on myself and solve my own problems since I developed an Anxious Attachment Style.
I'll probably use an online course and books to do this since I have very little time between my daughter and work. If it works, I will propose it to my wife, who says, "I understand, don’t worry, now I know what I need to give you without courses or anything," but I have serious doubts about this statement and will continue to track what happens in my diary to have objective data.
I’ve already told her that if, unfortunately, this situation doesn’t resolve, I will proceed with divorce, and when I do, if forced, I won’t go back. That will be the end.
I will let you know what happens. Personally, I want to see how things go next week. I am sure (unless I am mistaken) that my wife will only last three days. In any case, I will continue on my path to heal and be ready for a new relationship when the time comes. Stay tuned. If anyone has experience with a spouse healing from an Avoidant Attachment Style please let me know!
The comments kept coming.
Embarrassed_sky3188 wrote:
I am the avoidant partner. I take slight offense to your “developing” anxious attachment. Avoidant/anxious people attract each other like pos/neg magnet poles. It’s more probable that you both entered the relationship this way.
You are projecting that your wife is the problem. This will drive her away farther. You need to accept you are equal partners in the problem. You may have buried your traumas, but I bet they are there. This is what happened with me, but once I opened myself up I ended up needing 50ish hours of EMDR for treatment.
The thing that helps the most is the ability to recognize the anxious or avoidant emotional reaction in yourself. When I feel the run instinct, I understand what is happening and then identify the trigger. When you feel the grabbing (fight) reaction, you need to acknowledge that is your anxious reaction. Many people need therapy to develop this skill, me included.
BigIronBruce wrote:
I was the avoidant one in my marriage, for very similar reasons to your wife. Therapy was essential, I had to do the work to unwind childhood trauma and feel safe being vulnerable.
My wife was the one who figured out that we had a "classic" anxious/avoidant dynamic and we both did the work to get our marriage to a healthy place. It's not a two week process but knowing is a huge part of healing and your wife seems like she's had a breakthrough in understanding herself and hopefully that results in her doing the work.
OP responded:
Thank you very much for sharing your story, may I ask you some other details? Are you now fully healed? Are you able to express and receive affection? How long did it take to heal? I'm too the anxious one :) I just discovered.
MrsBigIronBruce responded:
I am his wife and the anxiously attached one. If I had to distill what I've learned about myself and this dynamic, it's that anxiously attached folks can catastrophize events, or lack of them, as signals that the relationship is failing, and they then start testing their partner to either prove the relationship is worth saving, or else, is failing and thus, justifiable in abandoning it.
The negative impact on the relationship, however, is that the avoidant partner is overwhelmed by the anxious one's testing and/or emotional volatility, and becomes even more avoidant.
As to what we did to remedy this dynamic, I think we did a lot more work around communication. Anxiously-attached folks tend to create tests without informing their partner because it's difficult for them to be vulnerable and admit to emotional needs for fear that they won't be met.
I was really detailed and what would make me feel loved and cherished in the relationship and he agreed to do them. My job was to accept these acts in the spirit he was giving them (Do not further test him when he accomplishes the goal) and give him grace when he doesn't perform them perfectly.
(It is human to make mistakes; it does not mean he stopped loving me.) It is very hard, but I'm glad we stuck it out. I wouldn't be so quick to give your wife an ultimatum around this, this is very hard work. If you and her agree to ways of improving your relationship, be attentive to small changes for the better and trust in them.
OPisOK wrote:
Good luck and keep us posted. My wife is also avoidantly attached. At least she fits the description perfectly. It can be very hard and she doesn’t even sound as avoidant as your wife.
Five days later, OP shared an update.
So, as expected my wife lasted less than 3 days, actually just 1 (in terms of giving kisses, hugs, cuddling). But it doesn't matter, I found all the things I need to fix in me so I'm starting the journey alone in order to grow and be able, without hesitation, to proceed with a divorce and don't go back to her.
I'm also seeing a lawyer to have everything checked before I proceed in the future.
The interesting thing is that I listed all my insecurities and issues related to the trauma I experienced in my childhood and I see a lot of thing that I need to work about and to fix in me
I asked out of curiosity to my wife what are the top 3 things she things should be fixed (expecting them to be at least 10 items) but she just told me that defensiveness and stonewalling are the only two things and that, without them, I would be a perfect husband.
I was stunned and confused the whole day. I also asked her if removing these 2 things would result in her loving me more, but she told me no because she already loves me the way I am and this is just my cross...
So it seems she's happy with the marriage while I'm not. I want more from a relationship, at least the basic caring of a wife. I don't think I'll give you any other update because I'll be focused improving things in myself, but once the times come for me to proceed with the divorce, I'll let you know what happens. Stay tuned.
A few weeks later, OP shared yet another update.
I began my journey of shadow work on my own. I thoroughly read about how to do it, studied everything carefully, and started confronting (with much pain) my past and what I experienced in my family of origin.
The first thing I realized was this very clingy and needy part of me that craved love, a bit too much, and I understood what a wounded and defenseless child lived inside me. I realized I needed to embrace him, hold him, and take care of him myself, as I was the only one who could give him unconditional and always available love.
It might sound strange, but realizing this allowed me to somehow talk to my deep self, embrace him, and make him understand that now I comprehend, I am here, I protect, and I am here for him. From that moment, I stopped seeking attention from my wife, a total reset, and with the new love I now know how to show myself, I feel calm, secure, and most importantly, no longer needy.
I stopped seeking my wife entirely, no kisses, no hugs, no sweet words, and zero conversations initiated by me. If she wants to, she can do it, otherwise, I am no longer interested. I am happy with myself.
In the two weeks this has been happening, she hasn't complained about anything. This made me realize that my hypotheses regarding her type of attachment were correct. After realizing this, I understood almost all the things that trigger me in my marriage and why, linking them to the traumas I experienced in the past.
I first tackled the issues of criticism and stonewalling. I discovered that because of how my mother treated me and all the physical and verbal ab-se from my stepfather (who hated me), I was always hyper-vigilant in trying to understand if I was in danger and if anyone wanted to harm or criticize me.
I suffered immensely reliving all this again, but I managed to understand why I was triggered, reasoned about why all this happened, tried to put myself in my mother’s and stepfather’s shoes to understand why they became the way they did (I know both of their childhood stories), and I have radically desensitized myself from this.
Without going into details, I told my wife that I resolved that one problem she always talked to me about, and to see the results in the following days.
In the following days, there were countless situations where I would normally have exploded and/or stonewalled, but I got through them calmly and unscathed, without being triggered. Even in important situations. This made me happy because I realized how much my past was negatively impacting my present.
Unfortunately, although we no longer have frequent arguments with my wife, she hasn't had significant changes. I just saw her happier and calmer, but she hasn't changed at all. I had asked her before starting this journey if resolving this issue would make her the loving, present, in-love woman from 2008 again. She said yes, but I have yet to see any changes.
Some evenings she has come to hug me for barely 3 minutes, once she gave me a quick kiss calling me love, that's it.
It’s okay, at the moment the focus is that I need to heal.
What surprised me the most instead was the rapid response of my 4-year-old daughter. Becoming calmer and more confident, I saw a surge in her tranquility and happiness, and now she wants to play and spend time with me much more willingly.
She immediately noticed the change and feels very secure with me. This filled me with joy, and I bonded even more with her. Continuing the shadow work, I am now dealing with another theme: the constant arguments and rejections from my stepfather whenever I asked for something.
Every time I asked for something, like going out with friends, going to eat a pizza, playing soccer, or some money to buy a sandwich in the evening, there were always constant arguments where he said no, I had to fight with him, argue endlessly. Besides the many noes, he always repeated that the NOs were tied to things I hadn’t done or things I had done wrong.
I won't go into details now because otherwise, this post would become too long, but believe me, he hated me to death and nearly drove me to s--cide. Reliving all this crap, I understood the dynamics in the relationship with my wife who, although she does a lot wrong, always tells me that everything depends on me and what I did/didn't do with her.
I am almost done addressing this aspect, the rejections from my stepfather, my inferiority, anxiety, low self-esteem, and little by little, I am discovering a sea of self-esteem, grit, determination, and anger that lies within me.
With my wife, I am becoming a different person: confident, strong, understanding her needs as well. In these two weeks, I have experienced a calm and serenity that I hadn’t felt in a long time. Zero arguments with my wife and zero dramas. But unfortunately, there is a but.
As you know, we have a stressful situation with our daughter, and sometimes the days are very heated. Like 2 days ago. In one of these, my wife verbally insulted me, using various bad words, but I confronted her (without using bad words or anything) that she can save that behavior for her street friends, not for me, her husband (I hadn’t done anything wrong in that situation).
The next day we had another situation where she physically threatened to slap me, again I wasn’t scared but rather, a strong anger and desire to defend myself arose within me. I told her that she absolutely must not dare, and I no longer tolerate these things, I am not the same person anymore, and I am not afraid of her.
So my life now is really heated with many problems and changes happening, doing this shadow work hurts, but the results are there and are evident.
I am finally understanding myself, helping myself, my self-esteem is rebuilding, and it is drastically changing my family dynamics.
I am also going to the lawyer next week to clearly understand my situation and what a divorce would entail regarding my daughter, money, and other factors. Finally, I am no longer afraid of being left or leaving my wife, which is what has held me back for 16 years from taking this step if necessary.
I’ll end with two things:
I hope to heal quickly, now that I am healing I can more easily recognize my wife's problems and how to help her. I aim to be at least 90% healed before explaining to her how I resolved my issues and what I am now.
Many of you criticized me for my Excel diary, but it was useful to do it, not so much for my wife, but for me. Now that I recognize my flaws, insecurities, fears, anxieties, and triggers, I know what to work on.
Until next time!
The internet was deeply invested.
Ifiwerenyourshoes wrote:
Let’s hop the next update op is you divorcing her.
OP responded:
I'm using the time to heal, having someone who triggers you helps you understand better yourself. Once I'm healed and I'm sure, I can proceed with the divorce with calm and serenity, if things don't improve. She needs to heal as well but now I'm not in the position to tell her anything or to expect anything, first I need to heal. If she decides that she is ok the way she is then a bye bye is guaranteed.
fubar_86 wrote:
Good luck on your new path. Your wife has h-t you in anger in the past? If so go straight to the lawyer man.
OP responded:
Also spit on. When your self esteem is low and you lack tools to defend yourself this is what happens, but now that I'm changing I'm no more allowing this crap to happen.
obi-jay wrote:
Good on you man, glad you are making progress and healing . No partner should stand for the other acting like this, you are on the right path.
OP responded:
Thanks!