I (28f) am getting married to my fiancé “Max” (25m) this summer. My sister, who I’ll call “Megan” (32f) has pretty serious Tourette’s. Certain physical movements and saying “Ha-ha-ha” are her most common tics but there are others as well.
As long as I’ve been alive, I’ve never seen Megan sit through a long ceremony or presentation without tics, not even her high school or college graduation or for any sibling’s graduations.
Her “Ha-ha-ha” is also extremely loud, bordering on yelling, and most of the time repetitive. I have involved and invited Megan to every aspect of the wedding, (the rehearsal dinner, the bachelorette party, and the reception) except for the actual ceremony.
My fiancé and I are writing our own vows and I just want to hear him say them without interruption. The ceremony is fairly long and I seriously doubt Megan’s ability to go that long without ticking.
She has said that holding back tics is like holding back a sneeze, only a thousand times more difficult. The only options I see for her going into the ceremony are a) letting the tics go on as normal and be scrutinized by Max’s side of the family who hasn’t met her yet, or b) trying to suppress them the whole time.
Either way it would be a miserable experience for her. (I have explained Megan’s situation to guests who were unaware, but in Max’s family there are several young children and elderly people that I doubt will have tact)
Megan was heartbroken when I told her I didn’t want her at the ceremony. I explained my reasoning to her about how the ceremony wouldn’t be fun for her either way, but she didn’t want to hear it.
She admitted that she will likely tic when we’re reading our vows, but insisted we can just pause and carry on or speak over it. I know this is selfish, but I don’t want Max to pause or speak over someone.
I want him to read his vows just as he wrote them. Megan has accused me of being mean, ablest, and a “bridezilla”, my dad is on my side, my mom is on Megan’s side, and my other sister (24f) agrees with me but thinks I should let her come anyway. Max supports whatever I decide but says he hopes this doesn’t fracture our sister relationship. So, AITA?
Edit: The kids I’m mentioning went to Max’s cousins wedding last year and were very well behaved, even though their ceremony was longer than what we’re planning ours to be, so that’s why I’m fine with them.
I don’t know if this helps, but I am also autistic and have severe struggles when my routines are interrupted or when things don’t happen how I planned them. I have often been accused of being a control freak, too type A, etc. Maybe this is just me letting my controlling personality get in the way?
Edit 2: Deleted the previous edit 2, which was expressing my concern that my post would be removed for talking about violence. This is my first time using the interne and I have tried to post to different subs where I was told even an allusion to violence would get my post taken down, and I didn’t understand the difference here.
Now that I do, I’d like to clarify my biggest issue isn’t the verbal interruptions (which would greatly upset me anyway) but potential harm for Megan and other guests:
There is a nonzero chance she could injure herself or others. This is the actual crux of the issue.
I could possibly, potentially handle verbal interruptions, although they would make me incredibly unhappy and uncomfortable, but I don’t think I can deal having to stop the wedding because someone has been hurt.
It usually only happens in high stress situations/when she was younger, but crowds/large groups of people have historically been a trigger for her, and the ceremony would require her to stand in front of a huge crowd pretty closely to other bridesmaids.
It’s happened only a few times in the past year, which should make me feel confident, but I feel like the anxiety has just been growing and growing, and I don’t know how to stop it other than making sure there is a 0% chance it could happen.
Even though she said she could deal, she has a history of either underestimating or minimizing how bad her tics would be. She said she could handle her stressors and manage them but whacked me in the face at a funeral a couple years ago.
She says she can handle the wedding, and I’m truly sorry if this is ablest, but I simply don’t believe or trust her anymore. She is either not being truthful with me or herself about how bad the tics can get.
Sorry for so many edits…but I did not mean to communicate that I was ashamed of Megan or cared if Max’s family did not approve of her. If that was true, I wouldn’t have her at any parts of the wedding since those family members will also be there. Based on her previous reactions to similar situations, I assumed that kids staring would upset her, not me.
Stress is a trigger for her. But people in the thread were right about how it wasn’t my place to assume and dictate how she would feel, and I messed up on that part. It’s hard to balance (reread the previous edit) when Megan does have a history of downplaying/underestimating how bad things could get.
MINOR UPDATE: I called my dad to double check, but there is a “nursery room” in the church where people can watch what’s happening in the church live on a TV inside. I hadn’t known about it because it wasn’t there when I was a kid, but it will definitely be on my list of proposed compromises when I speak with Megan.
I can only give you this story. I have friend with Hand tics, he claps his hands hard fives times. For his brother's wedding, he offered not to be there, it hard on him and it would be unfair.
But his brother set up Skype , yes he was muted, he was sitting at the Priest room outside the church and saw everything in real time. It also lowered his tics, stress and he was apart of it all and he had less tic filled night at the party afterwards.
Kooky-Item-8576 (OP)
That is an excellent idea, thank you so much! I will call her and discuss this asap.
I've seen churches with observation rooms in the back. They're usually used to allow someone with a crying child to still attend the sermon, but it should work for something like this too. If that's not available, attending via zoom would also allow attendance without having to stress about her having to try to suppress the tics.
NTA One of your sister's tics is violence. I wouldn't want her standing at the altar if she is going to be hitting or putting her hands on the bridesmaids next to her. How is that fair to the other bridesmaids?
Kooky-Item-8576 (OP)
It’s pretty rare, only happened a few times over the past year. When I tried to bring this up to my mom, she emphasized how rarely it happens, but the fact that there is a nonzero chance gives me severe anxiety.
As someone with Tourette’s, non vocal though, personally I’ve been concerned about group setting due to my tics. One is sometimes my hand will kinda go off to the side and I’ve accidentally smacked a couple people.
So being concerned about someone’s tics during such an event is understandable. If she is standing at the front with the bridesmaids during the ceremony and her tics get out of control more or less, you’d possibly have to stop the ceremony to deal with it or it would take any attention away from you getting married due to guests being distracted by her tics.
If I had a friend let me know she was concerned about my tics during her wedding I’d understand fully. You’re not being controlling in my opinion, you’re worried about a real possibility occurring during your wedding.
I’ll make this list and link it on my original post and in the comments if necessary.
“Why didn’t you suggest a compromise, such as Skyping?” I genuinely did not think of them.
I struggle with rigid thinking, and often categorize things as an absolute yes and no without thinking of any options in between. The suggestions for compromise have been very helpful, and I will bring them up to Megan.
“How would you feel if you were disinvited because of your autism?” If the reasoning was sound, such as they believe the environment would lead me to have a meltdown, then I would understand.
“What if your child has Tourette’s, how would you feel if they were excluded?” Since Tourette’s (as many of you have pointed out) is genetic, Max and I have thoroughly discussed how we would raise them.
We will ALWAYS demand reasonable accommodations from school and the workplace, but we will not insist they be involved in every single activity that kids without Tourette’s can do.
If we had a child that was in a wheelchair, we would not insist they be put on the track field alongside able bodied kids to see if they can wheel the 400 meter faster than they could run it. We would find an organization that caters to children in wheelchairs and specializes in helping them be active.
Our hypothetical child will understand that they can’t participate in everything the other kids can, but we will always provide alternatives and they will NEVER be made to feel less than because of it.
“Why can’t you just say your vows in private?” I don’t want to. That’s literally it. I feel pretty justified in all my other plans regarding Megan, but this is simply a selfish desire rooted in nothing but Max and me’s feelings. The thought of doing vows in private makes me unhappy, the thought of doing it in front of everyone makes me happy. You can call me TA for that if you wish.
“Why doesn’t your family consider that her tics particularly distress you because of your own disability (autism)?” It has never been taken very seriously by my family because it pales in comparison to Megan. If one child is drowning and the other one is just barely treading water, you go to the drowning child first.
“Why are you marrying into Max’s family if they will be ableist to Megan?” They have never been ableist to Megan. When I say I worry about their behavior, I specifically mean younger children and elderly people who aren’t mentally “there” being able to stop themselves from staring.
“Why do you care what Max’s family thinks?” I don’t. I don’t know how else to communicate that. It’s not THIS: Max’s family stares etc ➡️ I am upset. It’s THIS: Max’s family stares etc. ➡️ This upsets MEGAN ➡️ this stresses her and increases the likelihood of ticcing ➡️ she has a violent tic and harms herself or others
There is also selfish option b, where it causes a verbal tic and the consequence is just me being upset.
“If the kids are well behaved at the other wedding you mentioned, why can’t they be told by their parents on how to behave at this one?”
And now we come to the FAQ that renders the two previous ones completely irrelevant; you were right, I was wrong. I was catastrophizing (I don’t care if that’s not a word.)
Several people have pointed out that beyond their parent’s ability to instruct them, they may have disabled people in their class or their lives they see often. I was projecting my own personal experiences because children rarely, if ever, don’t stare at Megan when she is ticcing.
However, I honestly realized that there’s a big difference between a kid who has been prepared from conversations from their parents and know what to expect, vs kids who see some random lady yelling in the supermarket and their mom snaps at them to stop staring. In my mind, all kids were the same.
I would also like to clarify that I’m upset about her verbal tics because they affect ME. I am sensitive to loud and unexpected noises, which is exactly what her tics are. Most of the time I push down my negative reactions, but if it was just us alone in the room I would STILL be distressed by her tics.
“What are her violent tics?” The three main ones I know of are the elbow, stomping, and flailing her arm. Stomping and flailing her arm are just normal motor tics that people are sometimes caught in the crossfire of. With the elbow, she’s explained she MUST elbow someone or something.
Most of the time it’s just the wall or whatever chair/couch she’s sitting on, but sometimes it’s a person. The elbow is also dangerous because it comes on very suddenly and is hard to hold back.
The most recent elbow victim was the couch at my parent’s house, the last human victim was my dad at Thanksgiving. No offense to him but he has a decent layer of fat insulating him so he was fine. I will add more FAQs as they come.
Additional context I think will help: All 3 girls are moved out the house. Max and I have an apartment in a big city that will remain unnamed for privacy reasons and my youngest sister (24f, I will call her Mia) is in law school at a university that will also remain unnamed.
We’re both in relatively drivable distances from our hometown, where Megan and our parents live. It’s a small town where everyone knows everyone type of deal, and Megan attended a community college where she was already known by the professors and student body. While Megan lives on her own, she is very reliant on our parents.
She has never even attempted to get a driver’s license because of the possibility a tic could cause her to swerve (reasonable in my opinion) so my mom drives her to and from work every day. This is not me looking down on Megan in any way for not attending a four year big name like Mia and I or for needing extra help from our parents, because she does need it.
This is to explain that Megan and my parents, particularly my mom, are VERY close. In my opinion my mom does things for Megan (mostly interpersonal conflicts) that I think she can handle on her own.
Megan rarely communicates directly with Mia and I, instead our mom usually calls us and says “Megan wants x” or “Megan mentioned she felt y” Our fight about the wedding was one of the few real discussions we’ve had without Mom mediating.
So the first person I actually called was my mom and not Megan. I told her that Megan and I are both grown adults who are capable of handling ourselves. I said I will not take anything into consideration other than what comes directly from Megan’s mouth.
If mom tells me Megan is upset, I will disregard it. I got pretty frustrated when she steamrolled over my request and threw in her face that I’m the one paying for the wedding, not her and Dad, which I regretted.
I said I’m willing to work something out with Megan, but if they refuse to communicate or try to disrupt our conversation all 3 of them will be disinvited. I reminded her Megan was an adult and hung up.
I won’t copy and paste the exact text I sent Megan, but here are the main points: •It was not my intention to hurt you, and I’m sorry. Please let me explain •I want to TALK, not text, things are too easily misconstrued.
Your verbal tics have never been a problem for me. I didn’t mean to make you feel ashamed of them. I don’t want you to feel like we can’t talk. The wedding ceremony is a one time thing I can explain if you CALL ME.
Mom and Dad are not present in the room when she calls me. I have already called Mom and told her to stay out of my business. I want to talk to her alone, and breaking my trust on this will have serious consequences.
A list of 2 hour blocks in the next three days I’m available to have a conversation. I love you. She responded picking one of the times tomorrow and nothing more, but I’m hopeful we can work this out.
I called Megan this morning. I’ll summarize our conversation, excluding any verbal tics. It’s very, very, very long, and all names are fake for privacy reasons. I will refer to myself as “Michelle”
I told Megan I was sorry I hurt her feelings. Megan said it was especially mean because I know how sensitive she is about weddings & that they’re a sore spot for her I’m bamboozled. I inform Megan that I was NOT aware that weddings were a particularly sensitive subject for her.
(Context: Megan & I are at the age where pretty much everyone is getting married, moreso for Megan because she lives in our small hometown. Plenty of women and one man she considers her close friends did not invite her to their wedding AT ALL. She works at a boutique and has even encountered friends shopping for jewelry for weddings she wasn’t invited to, but I didn’t know that last part.)
Megan does not believe me. How can I not know how upsetting it is when she and my mom have repeatedly mentioned the exclusion to me every time it happens. My answer: Well you never told me you didn’t get invited AND you were sad about it, you just told me you weren’t getting invited.
Megan says it’s pretty easy to figure out and thinks I’m being purposefully obtuse. I was supposed to pick it up from context clues (the fact that she even said it, her tone when she said it, how many times she mentioned it) and apparently literally everyone else had. Megan cries. I don’t know what to do. I just wait until she stops.
I remind Megan that I struggle interpreting things like that. (This line is from Max, who I consulted, but he was not in the room.) I told her that just like she needs some accommodations for her Tourette’s, I need accommodations for my autism, and she has to explain things to me, especially feelings related things because I need that extra help.
Brief interlude you can skip if you want:
Megan: “You need someone to explain crying to you?”
Me: “This is the first time you’ve cried about it to me, obviously I know what crying means, I’m not a complete dumbass.”
Megan: “I didn’t say you were a complete dumbass.”
Me: “I felt like it was implied.”
Megan: “You just told me how bad you are at understanding implications.”
Me: “I can still guess.”
Megan: “Well your guess is wrong.”
I concede to her but repeat what I said about needing some things explained to me.
“You said we didn’t need to do that anymore”
“Only because Aunt Marnie was such a b-word about it.”
Context: When I was 15 my dad’s sister came to live with us and help out, around this time I verbally expressed my need for clear explanations and she was so annoying.
Example: She’d stop at a red light and huff, and then turn to me in backseat and say slowly, “That means I’m annoyed” like I was a toddler or something.
My parents & sisters attempted with good faith and told off my aunt when she was being condescending in front of them, but they never quite caught on to what explanations I needed or didn’t need.
I just got tired of correcting them and announced I was fine after about six weeks or so. (Max is very good at explicitly stating his feelings because his mom is a therapist. The whole family is very communicative and verbalize their emotions.)
“I didn’t know you were that upset about it.”
I realize Megan did not know for the same reason I didn’t know weddings upset her: I never told her.
Plus her tics were about at their height when this was going on, and I absolutely don’t blame her for not being observant, especially as I do not have typical tells of neurotypical people when they’re upset.
Now I explain to Megan my idea of the nursery room and live streaming it to her so she can see it. The next accusation from Megan: “You’re ashamed of me just like (friends) are. You think I’m embarrassing.”
I say no, if I was ashamed I wouldn’t invite her to anything at all. I tell her I didn’t want her at the ceremony specifically because) 1) The sudden loud noises really will distress me. Especially in a typical setup where the bridesmaids are behind me and I can’t see them, so I won’t even have a warning that it’s coming.
She says fine in a tone that I am able to pick up on, and I ask her if this is how she really feels, because if it’s not fine she needs to tell me. I haven’t even brought up the possibility of violence yet because that will make her even more upset. After a significant pause, she says no offense but she feels like I’m just saying this to hide that I’m ashamed of her, that her “friends” make lots of excuses like that too.
I say no, but I understand why it looks that way because I have always downplayed my own issues when I’m with our family (something else Max coached me on/suggested to me). I said that if she thought I was lying she could talk to Max, his family, or any one of my friends who can verify my sensitivity to loud sound isn’t recent.
She says fine in a way that I interpreted as being more mollified, and then I said I’m worried about her violent tics. She seems more understanding but insists she can handle it. I try to gentle my voice as much as possible, but explain that anything above a zero percent chance is unacceptable for me.
She says it’s not that bad, but her tone of voice and inflection is different, I interpret from this she might actually agree with me but is not ready to admit it yet, or doesn’t believe what she’s saying.
I remind her that all of our family are historically bigger and that she works out a lot, (which I admire her for!) None of the family members really gets hurt when she elbows because we’re all around her size, but she has to be reminded that she’s a 5’10 muscular woman.
I reiterate this and bring up one of my bridesmaids as an example. Direct quote: “All of the other (our last name)s would be fine but Mary is 5’0 and 115 soaking wet. If you elbowed she would go the fuck down and I don’t think she would get up.”
She laughs a little uncomfortably, but I’m not joking. I remind her of Nana’s funeral where she said she would be fine and then ended up smacking me in the face. I said I know Tourette’s can be unpredictable, but she’s had 32 years to figure out her limits. I remind her that she has consistently misled me about how bad things will be.
She swears this time it will actually be fine, that she knows herself better than I do and it’s condescending to assume that she’s lying. She also reminds me Nana’s wedding was years ago, saying she’s improved, and I remind her that the last elbowing incident was months ago.
I give up at this point. I am so tired of her lying. She knows she’s lying, I know she’s lying, and she knows I know. I say fine. You can be in the ceremony if you say you can. But if you hurt someone during the ceremony you will have to leave immediately.
You will be disinvited from the reception. If they sue you, I will not help financially or help you find a lawyer. And I will cut you off completely and not speak to you anymore. You will not get to meet your nieces and nephews, ever. If you’re truly willing to risk ALL that then you must be truly confident, and I trust you. Otherwise the nursery room is always open and you can watch on the TV.
She doesn’t answer me, but starts crying and says how can I do this to her, this is the only way she’ll EVER be IN a wedding in any way, no one else wants her but her own family should, it’s not fair and she just wants for one time in her life to be in a wedding.
This is a lot of information to process for me, so I just kind of pick out one piece and blurt it out before I can process the rest as whole. “Why don’t you think you’ll get married?” She says, are you delusional, nobody would ever want to marry me.
I know this is really insensitive, but I wasn’t trying to be mean. It was just my first reaction I didn’t think over it. I just said flatly, “Megan, you’re being really stupid.” This seems to shock her into silence.
I continued. “You’re very smart, you’re very pretty, you work out and you’re a good person. There are lots of people out there you haven’t met yet that could be a great match, maybe even someone who has Tourette’s too, so writing yourself off and preemptively giving up is incredibly dumb.”
She sighs and says you don’t get it. I say yes I do, that I never thought someone would understand me until I met Max. I tell her that she’s stayed in our hometown her whole life, and there’s a reason I didn’t marry anyone from there.
I did something off script, which surprised me, but I said I know she doesn’t like big crowds but she should come to (city) with me and Max or just me. I said she should try and meet new people.
She seemed taken aback and almost horrified by the thought, so I said something was probably offensive (sorry) and said “There’s an 80% chance a homeless tweaker will be doing something way more disruptive than you at any given time.”
She got really quiet and didn’t say anything, so I reiterated my points: I’m not ashamed of the tics in and of themselves, I am worried about potential harm they could cause.
The motor tics are self explanatory, and the vocal tics will distress me and make me uncomfortable. If she wants to bet our entire relationship on her confidence she won’t motor tic and hurt someone, she can be my guest, but I’m done.
She starts begging me. Why can’t I get a bigger venue so the bridesmaids have more room, and place an inanimate object near in case she gets the elbowing tic? Or why did I pick so many bridesmaids when I knew she would be one and she would be crowded?
Why can’t I just say my vows in private? Why can’t I just ignore her when she tics? Why, why, why. Finally, she said she felt like I didn’t take her needs into consideration and planned the wedding without thinking her at all.
I snapped. I said, “Of course I didn’t think of you, it’s MY FUCKING WEDDING. Mine! I have spent my entire life thinking of you and how things might affect you and what YOU need instead of what I do. I moved this far away so I could STOP thinking about you. You got everything.
You got Mom and Dad’s attention, all the sympathy, all the money went towards your treatments. I didn’t get to see a therapist, just drive you to and from YOUR appointments. When I was nine you slammed a car door on my hand because of your tics and BROKE MY FINGER!
Do you remember that? Mom and Dad were more concerned about me reassuring you I didn’t blame you than my broken bone. Everything is about you and your feelings. Oh, Megan is ticcing too much to pack her backpack, you get it Michelle.
I know she threw a vase at your head during a rage fit, but Michelle, imagine how bad she feels. Megan’s sitting alone at lunch again, be a good sister and abandon YOUR FRIENDS to sit with her. And now I can’t even have my own wedding without making it about you? Fuck off.” Megan was silent and then hung up.
Something else that was brought up in the comments that has now been resolved: yes, Max has feelings about my family dynamic but always allowed me to dictate it, both because he knows I like control and because he doesn’t have much experience with disabilities.
95% of things, we offer feedback to the other if we think they need it, seek advice, discuss, etc. But for my family, he never really said anything except a variation of “I support your decision.”
He said he would like to have input, especially as they will soon be HIS family as well and (hopefully) interacting with our future children. I can get annoyed, because his mom’s a therapist and uses “therapy speak” pretty regularly and it’s been passed on to both her kids.
Secretly, I think he thinks he’s sort of an honorary therapist because he was raised by one and got treated by another. Earlier in our relationship when I was accepting his advice for family matters, he would say things like “you seem to have an avoidant attachment style, probably from being ignored by your parents in childhood.”
I told him in no uncertain terms I did not care to be psychoanalyzed and that was that. We talked a lot, but the gist of it is that he has had opinions on my family, and struggles with his instinct to protect me and his desire to respect my decisions.
From now on, I am going to listen to him and take his opinion into consideration when deciding about family matters. He promised to stop the “therapy talk” and says that was more him being 21 and trying to impress me with big words.
I have noticed he doesn’t really do it anymore. So after my call with Megan I walked into our shared bedroom, and he didn’t even have time to ask how it went before I burst into tears. He held me for a while (I am fine physical touch and affection, especially from him, as long as it’s not unexpected).
Eventually my phone started ringing again and I saw that it was Mom. I told Max that I didn’t want to talk to her but if I didn’t pick up it would become a Whole Thing. He just silently held out his hand, and when I realized what he meant, I put my phone in it.
The conversation wasn’t on speaker and I didn’t really care enough to try and listen to what she said and for the most part I don’t remember what he said after telling my mom I couldn’t come to the phone, just the beginning:
“Well, Michelle’s crying too. I think you should be just as concerned about that.” And the end: “Yeah well, my parents have said they’d more than happy to walk her down the aisle, so you think on that.”
I told Max about these posts and he was a little confused but supportive, and thinks it’s funny how I’ve picked out names starting with M for everyone. I have not had any more calls from my family.
But Max called his mother (very nice lady) and put her on speaker and she reiterated she’d be happy to walk me down the aisle with her husband. So that is that for now. I find the anonymity very freeing, as well as writing down what happened, so I will update you all as soon as there is on.
Max and I have officially disinvited Megan and my parents from my wedding. I am getting lots of support and love from his family. I’ve got all the advice I feel I’ve needed, so I’m going to delete this account as it has served its purpose. I’ll leave this up for a little while before I do it so people who are invested can see it. Thanks for all the advice and help!
I'm invested now, I can't believe it's over.
Well the wedding hasn't happened yet. There's still time for a gaycation.
I feel bad for OP's sister, but if she really is prone to physically violent outbursts when stressed and is very much lying to herself about how well she can control it, I don't know what other alternatives exist that wouldn't also insult her. I put a lot of blame on the parents, from the sounds of everything they always prioritized the oldest and left OP and likely the youngest sibling in the dust.
Jesus. Reading this gave me anxiety.
"She admitted that she will likely tic when we’re reading our vows, but insisted we can just pause and carry on or speak over it."
"I know this is your moment, and I'll probably break it up, but you can just deal with it so I don't have to feel sad."
The fact that OP's parents just don't seem to care about missing out on their other child's wedding after all that is... telling me a lot of things. OP wants her moment to actually be hers this time.