'AITA for telling my friend that proposing is not a suitable Christmas present?'
"AITA for telling my friend that proposing is not a suitable Christmas present?"
I have a friend who I'll be calling "Harry." Harry and I have known each other for over a decade (we're in our early 30s), he was part of my own wedding party, and 99 times out of 100, he's an all round great guy. Harry has been dating his girlfriend for around 4 years - she's an absolute diamond, and brings out all of the best qualities in him.
A couple of weeks ago, Harry confided in me that he was planning to propose to his partner over Christmas - she's very family focused, and he is setting it up so his parents 'unexpectedly' visit them (they're doing Christmas with her family this year) early in the morning, and he will propose during present opening in front of his and her parents, and her siblings and their partners/kids.
When chatting about arrangements a couple of days ago, Harry made a throwaway comment about the engagement saving him some time in relation to the rest of his Christmas shopping.
I asked him what he meant, and he said that since he was proposing, he hadn't planned to get his partner anything else for Christmas. I said that the two were not mutually exclusive - when I got engaged, albeit not at Christmas, my husband still got me a birthday present the following month.
Harry raised that the ring was costing him more than several usual Christmas and birthday present combined, which is true, but it is not the case that he is scraping together every last penny to buy it either, and there is absolutely money to spare for a couple of gifts that he'd usually get his partner.
I also pointed out that since he is hoping to surprise her with the proposal, that it would become quite obvious that something was afoot if there were no presents for her from him under the tree. We went back and forth for a while, with Harry continuing to take the stance that 'getting engaged' is definitely a gift.
I said that it was all well and good, but that his girlfriend will absolutely have bought him gifts that he will both appreciate and use, and that an engagement is in no way the same kind of exchange in that sense. Additionally, while his partner is in no way materialistic, she is someone who appreciates the 'give and take' of mutual present exchanges like Christmas, white elephants etc.
We didn't have a major fight or anything like that about this, but Harry has said that he's probably not going to share more about the engagement with me because I have 'differing views'. I don't want to be a stubborn old fool on something I'm clearly wrong about, so would appreciate the view of Internet strangers on this.
Edit: A couple of comments are on the same lines so I'll respond to them here instead of individually:
"He shouldn't propose to her in front of others" - getting engaged in front of family would suit his partner to a tee, this is definitely something she would want based on previous conversations.
"You shouldn't involve yourself too much in your friend's life" - the entire discussion lasted maybe 5 minutes while we were having a drink, including Harry saying he'd not bring it up with me anymore."
"In no way have I told him point blank to do/not do something, and we have spoken since civilly on other topics since. I'd hope that everyone has a friend or two who'll be honest to them if they think they're in the wrong - to be frank. my question here centered on the proposal as the gift, not on if I'm a bad friend."
Here's what people had to say to OP:
Nanny_Oggs wrote:
NTA. I think the idea that proposing is a gift from him to her, as opposed to a mutually joyful step forward for both of them, is a bit distasteful.
Night_Owl_26 wrote:
NTA. She may not realize it in the moment as she’s excited about the proposal but she will absolutely realize it as he opens gifts from her and others that he has chosen the easy way out and decided it was important to gift her anything for the holiday. Also, if and when she dumps him, the ring is rightfully hers because he gave it to her as a gift and not as a contractual agreement.
NickyTaylor14 wrote:
NTA this guy is. He shouldn’t be using a proposal as a gift 😭 He should get her multiple gifts and then once she’s done opening them he can be like ‘I have one more’ and propose to her.
I would be genuinely shocked if that was me and my partner thought that was a GIFT TO ME. Like do you even want to get married or did you just want to shut me up and make me happy w a ring? 🥲 like wouldn’t saying yes be a GIFT FOR YOU THEN? Like be so for real bro 😭
Impressive-Union6961 wrote:
NTA, your friend is TA, for ‘combining occasions’ and just framing proposal as a gift (ring is a gift, proposal is not), but even more for ‘if you disagree with me I will not talk to you about engagement’. If he is cash strapped make a gift, this is not an excuse.
Ok-Can-7299 wrote:
I got engaged last year, my husband had gotten my family to join us on his families annual Colorado trip. I was completely oblivious even though all the signs were there. But we both still participated in normal gift exchange. You’re NTA just a good friend doing your job of looking out for him.
Getting engaged is amazing but should never be used as a replacement for any holiday or big life event (graduating, new job, baby shower, etc.) He doesn’t need to spend a crazy amount on her gifts I’m sure she’ll understand he did a lot but he should still get her some things like normal.
I definitely would’ve felt a little hurt if he didn’t give me any gifts even though he proposed. You never want a proposal to feel as though you are lacking in any areas even before or after it takes place.
ryhan0 wrote:
“The engagement is the present” reads as if engagement and marriage is only to benefit her. It feels like he’s selling himself as a gift while that’s simply not true. In a relationship engagement and marriage should be for both sides so no NTA.
OhnoXO wrote:
I used to work at a jewellers and the number of men who would appear in the lead up to Christmas, figuring they'd 'just buy an engagement ring' for Christmas, was sickening. They never put any effort into picking it and would usually ask what was on sale when I tried to narrow down what they were looking for.
I'm not saying this is the same, but it happened too often that I can't help but feel that Christmas proposals are both thoughtless and lazy.