"My MIL gaslit and manipulated my husband..."
Me (F25) and my husband (M23), got married this past January. We had a beautiful winter themed wedding with pine garlands, gold accents, and even "snow" for our send off. Our wedding went off without a hitch and was absolutely gorgeous. We were so happy and so in love!
The only thing about our wedding day that was sour...was the look on my MIL and FIL's faces the entire day. We literally have a picture of me happily walking down the aisle and in the background my FIL looks like he wants to kill me (MIL was not in camera view, but people have told me she also looked this way).
They proceeded to not talk to us the entire day. It was happenstance that me and my husband were doing our rounds and we happened to bump into them as they left our reception. My husband pettily held out his hand to his dad, and his dad curtly said "congratulations." His mom kept walking and while opening the door to exit she looked back and snottily said "I hope you're happy!" So yeah, they were very supportive.
Why, you ask, were things like this? Me and my husband decided together, only weeks before our wedding, that my MIL would not light the unity candle before the service. For those unfamiliar, a unity candle at a wedding is three candles placed at the altar.
The idea is for 2 people of the bride and groom's choosing to each light 1 candle, then during the ceremony, the bride and groom light the middle candle with the single candles and blow theirs out to signify their "union." It is common that people choose their mothers to do this, but it is obviously up to the bride and groom.
Our desire was for both of our mothers to light the candles. (Just a little fun fact for later, when I initially told my MIL about our desire for her to light the candle, she whined profusely and acted like I needed to talk her into it.)
So what happened that we would revoke the privilege of lighting the candle? Hold on to your seat. There are so many details and I could honestly write a BOOK about all of the crap we put up with during our only 3 month engagement.
To put it simply: my MIL LOST HER MIND when she realized that her precious baby boy was actually going to move out and get married. She demanded that we come over to her house for dinner every other day (I was still living with my family and my fiance with his) or else she would literally cry and act like she was neglected. We put up with this for months alongside her also being emotionally and verbally toxic to my fiance.
It caused a lot of stress between us because my fiance literally thought this behavior was normal...I strongly disagreed. Well, the 2 weeks after Christmas, me and my fiance were off work, so we spent every spare moment we could redoing our house.
This started a downhill spiral that resulted in her sending a text message to my fiance that said "Just letting you know, we will not be hosting or paying for the rehearsal dinner. We will also not be able to attend." My fiance handled it very well and said that we would take care of it, but we still wanted him there.
She then said that he didn't want them there and that he had abandoned his family and they were all heartbroken. The next day he tried to go over to his parents house to talk to them, and you'll never guess what happened.
My MIL literally ran up to my fiance and was physically violent while screaming that he was an "F-ing jerk!" My FIL soon joined her by hurling verbal abuse at their son. An argument ensued as my fiance tried to explain to them that they had made our engagement so stressful and that he was trying his best to make the transition easy for them.
(They were still hearing from him EVERY DAY at this point). They would not hear this. My MIL proceeded to my fiance that she was praying that we broke up (keep in mind, this is 3 weeks before our wedding) and that she could object to our wedding. She called me a "Psychotic b" and a master manipulator. Apparently I had been scheming to destroy their family and tear her precious baby boy from her clutches, lol.
Long story short, they never apologized for anything they said to my fiance or anything they said about me. We both decided that my MIL should not light the unity candle, as she was not unified with us. Well, 5 days before our wedding, they showed up at my fiance's house (he had moved out of their house a month before)...
...and my FIL told my fiance that "if you let another woman light that candle, it will destroy your mother." My fiance promised that he wouldn't "replace her," meaning that we would not put another woman up there. Our solution was just to have my mom light both candles as to not draw attention to the fact that my MIL was not up there.
Well, MIL did not like this arrangement, and to this day, she says that my husband "Chose a new mom" because he let my mom light the unity candle. We have tried to explain over and over that we did what we thought was best under the circumstances and that we weren't trying to hurt her.
She does not believe us and calls us liars because "WE KNEW IT WOULD KILL HER." We have been married for 9 months now and we just tried to talk to my MIL a few weeks ago about this and it resulted with her screaming at us because she believes we were just trying to hurt her...so...should we have just let her light the dumb thing?
Me and my husband, and EVERYONE but my MIL and FIL think we made the right choice. Looking back, I think we should have told them not to come to the wedding, but idk if that's too far. Frankly, I think it's funny she's still crying about it 9 months later.
This poor victim baby has never been held accountable for her actions and it's pretty ironic that her son and DIL are the first to tell her that the world doesn't revolve around her. We are expecting our first baby now and me and my husband will not be allowing her anywhere near the baby until she seeks counseling.
Here's what people had to say to OP:
False_Dragonfly_2047 said:
Wow just wow...sounds like the most toxic person ever. Go no contact for the sake of your mental health and any future children you have. People like this don't change they just get different people to enable their behaviors. Steer clear and do not let her guilt trip you ever.
Plugitin_Plugitin said:
Your in-laws sound like a hoot and a half. I think I would refuse contact with the baby forever, even if she does seek counseling. Secretly move. Change numbers. Private social media accounts. Don't post baby pics. Only let in people you can trust. Leave them in the dust. They don't like you. Might as well let them hate you from a distance where you can't hear them shouting curses at you.
Soft-Severe said:
Sometimes you gotta cut toxic people out your life...even if it's ur parents. Go NC...I promise it will be the best decision you ever made...good luck & congrats on your new family
Whatever-and-breathe said:
What do they bring to both your life. Ask yourself, if you didn't know those people or husband was related to them, would you want them in your life? If the answer is no, not really, then it might be time to consider LC or even better NC.
Hitting your husband and insulting both of you is not ok. The reality is that they need you more than you need them. Tell them that due to their toxic behavior you will not be in contact with them for awhile as you need to revaluate if you want them in your life, or even any future potential children.
If they continue to behave this way or push your boundaries then you will go full NC. If they start protesting remind them that being in your life is a privilege not a right. If they start blaming you OP, tell them that as adults they should take accountability for their actions which includes insults and hitting...
...and cannot expect respect or a relationship their son when they are displaying those behaviors. That they are lucky to have been at the wedding. The people tearing the family apart are them and only them.
If they start trying to guilt trip husband about "all the things they have done," tell them that the choice of creating a life was theirs and putting a roof over the child head, feeding...is the bare minimum and part of the requirement.
NotSorry2019 said:
I hope you start smiling and telling her how right she is and how you plan on continuing to “ruin her life” by making sure she’s nowhere near it while you and your family are happy. She can either fall in line with common decency or she can f off. Keep that spine shining!
Taliesine_ said:
Get therapy to your husband quickly. The kind of emotional and mental abuse/harassment they pulled out on him will leave heavy scars, better to start treating them as soon as possible. Couple therapy might help too.
Also, when the time is right, write a letter with the help of your therapist to explain what his parents did wrong and why you're going no contact with them until they change their way. Finally, treat your couple with all the kindness possible. I wish you both the best and the most beautiful happiness.
FIRST UPDATE:
The last time we saw my MIL and FIL was almost 2 months ago when we invited them to meet us at a Dunkin to talk. We had just found out we were expecting and wanted to try to test the waters again...just in case there was any sort of change of heart. Long story short, there was zero change in heart. In fact, they seem more bitter and hateful toward us than ever.
They stormed out of the Dunkin like toddlers after only 5 minutes of being there. Naturally, we did not tell them we were expecting. We decided that we had no reason to tell his parents about our baby. They are treating us worse than they'd treat a stranger. Our decision was that they would find out through the grapevine.
A few weeks later, we invited my husband's only brother (who still lives at home, poor kid), to our home to tell him we were expecting. He was so excited and happy for us! We figured he'd go home and tell his parents (my in-laws) about the baby...but he didn't.
I find this very interesting because I believe that he talks to his parents about things that make him excited...but he didn't want to mention our baby. I just think it's very telling of how they act even at home with him. I digress. Anyways, a week passes and at this points we have told my husband's grandparents (on his mom's side), and my husband's great Aunt (his mom's aunt).
This great aunt lives in Florida and happened to shoot us a text to see how we were doing. We ended up sharing the news with her and she was so happy for us too. Now...I'm petty for this....but I love what happens next. At this point, my in laws still don't know anything because their youngest son and my MIL's parents are too scared to say anything.
BUT, the great Aunt does not know about the family drama. She texted my MIL and said "Congratulations on being a grandma!" AND THAT'S HOW MY IN-LAWS FOUND OUT! I know it's evil of me...but gosh...it felt so satisfying.
So, the way that we found out about this is because my husband's grandma texted him the morning it all happened to tell him. Grandma actually said that my MIL told her that she "couldn't believe her son wouldn't give her that news himself." THE ENTITLEMENT.
Like...she had literally told her son she was happier without him in her life only a few weeks before...but now she thinks she's owed news about a grandbaby? I can't even. That's the only update I have specific to her, but I do have another little story that has me absolutely flabbergasted.
About a week ago, me and my husband went out to dinner with his grandpa on the other side (his dad's dad). We had a nice meal and we told them the news. Turns out, they ended up finding out through the grapevine. I can't help but speculate that my in-laws went and told him and whined about how awful it was that THEIR OWN SON wouldn't share that news with them.
Anyways, at the very end of the meal, my husband ends up saying something like "sorry we didn't tell you sooner, things have been busy and then hard because things still aren't good with my parents." His grandpa immediately tries to shut down the conversation and says something like "I want to stay out of it. I don't want to know anything."
Which, fine dude. I guess if you don't care enough to want to try to help, then stay out. BUT HE DIDN'T. He proceeds to lean over to my husband and say, "but the Bible DOES say to respect your parents." Me and my husband were stunned silent for a moment. This man who claimed to not know anything, suddenly thinks this is something that needs to be said?
(The only way he'd know this is through my in-laws. Their over-arching theme of hate for us is that they said my husband disrespected them. AKA, he didn't do whatever they wanted) So after a moment of processing what my husband's grandpa just said, I look him dead in the eye and calmly say, "well the Bible also says not to punch people."
I figured that he would find that piece of information shocking...but instead he said "well the Bible says to discipline your children!" So now we are absolutely stunned that the grandpa on this side believes that my MIL was within full rights to punch her grown son because she was "disciplining him."
The crazier thing is that she actually did tell my husband that she was punishing him at another point right before our marriage. This interaction with grandpa has made me feel even more strongly that our baby should be kept far away from these people.
The belief that your grown children are your pawns to control and discipline as you choose seems to be a generational thing if grandpa really believes what he said to us (mind you, without ever hearing our side of the story!). IDK, I just needed to vent a little...I can't believe the virus that is my in-laws.
SECOND UPDATE:
So, MIL found out through the grapevine about our pregnancy and had been silent for a few months. Out of the blue, she texted my husband the other day and said, "I saw this and thought of you and (me), hope all is well." She then sent pictures of pages of a book she was reading which was all about newborns.
The content was on whether or not babies should get vaccines, if ultrasounds were healthy, and a few other topics. I know we shouldn't make assumptions of others...but I just know that she is testing the waters.
It makes me absolutely crazy that this woman, who literally told her son 2 months ago that she was happier not talking to him, would then think it was appropriate to send us any kind of baby advice! Also, why is a 47 year old woman reading about babies?!!
My mom was friends with my MIL for a few years before me and my husband married and she said that my MIL actually told my mom that she wanted a baby! Keep in mind, this woman is 45-46 at the time! My mom said she even had tears in her eyes while she said it! My mom is the same age as my MIL and she DOES NOT want a baby because....she already had her babies and her time is done!
My mom would never sit around right now and read books about newborns, let alone send us her advice on what she thinks we should do with ours! I just feel like this incident is the epitome of our problems with my MIL. She is so entitled and warped that she thinks we would need her advice even when we are not on talking terms!
Keep in mind, this same woman also told me and my husband that "Your kids will be ours" while laughing like it was just a joke. UMMMM...NO ONE ELSE HAS TOLD ME THAT MY BABY WILL BE THEIRS. I just have a feeling that she will start to contact us more to try to wriggle her way back in.
She's desperate now because there's a baby coming and it's the holidays. She's in for a surprise when my husband doesn't agree to act like nothing ever happened just because a baby is coming. Just some added details that make me nuts...we just saw my husband's grandparents for Thanksgiving. At one point his grandma (my MIL's mom), said that my MIL never wanted daughters.
What's your opinion on that? I feel like it's a red flag if a woman only wants sons while simultaneously always hates other women. I just feel like my MIL was boy-crazy and obviously took it too far with even her son. To make that notion worse, we are having a boy, and I'm afraid she may think it's my husband 2.0.
Idk....I just can't believe this woman. Instead of admitting she was wrong and asking us how we can rebuild, she wants to tiptoe back in like nothing happened because I'm pregnant. What kind of scumbag doesn't want to fix things with her son and DIL until there's a baby involved?
It kills me. I'm just waiting for the next text from her...waiting for the "what do you mean I can't come to the baby shower?" and the "what do you mean we need therapy??" *sigh*
THIRD UPDATE:
So I updated pretty recently because my MIL reached out to my husband to send us an article about what we should do with our baby (I'm expecting), even though only a few months before she had been screaming at us and telling us she was happier without us. I digress. Anyways, more events have transpired and I am just still trying to process all of it and look at everything objectively.
To preface, we did not have Thanksgiving with my in laws, and haven't had any get togethers with my in laws for almost a year because of their hostile and abusive behavior. My husband's grandparents, my MIL's parents, went to my MIL's house for the day after Thanksgiving.
While they were there, the grandparents told my MIL the gender of our baby (a boy) and what we are going to name him. My MIL actually had the gull to whine and say "I am disappointed my son wouldn't tell me that himself!" If you know our story, you understand how ridiculous and entitled her saying that is.
Well, long story short, only a few hours after she learned the gender of our baby, she texted my husband. I'm going to paraphrase her message.
"Hello, grandma and grandpa came over for dinner and we have tons of pie leftover. Would you and (me) like to come over and help us eat it some time tomorrow? We don't want to talk about the past. Just catch up and be cordial."
My husband's response, in a nutshell, was "hey, we can't come over and pretend like the last year didn't happen. We have to talk about everything. Would you and dad be willing to go to group counseling with us?"
She responded back, "let me talk to your dad about it, I guess. You know, that doesn't really help me with my pie problem! (insert smiley face)" - my husband just said "ok, let me know" and ignored her attempt at playful banter.
After 3 days she texted back, "So me and your dad talked and he thinks this is you trying to usurp power. We will go to counseling only if we can go separately from you guys. Have you found a counselor?"
My husband responded, "respectfully, the fact that you guys think I am trying to usurp power by asking to go to counseling is evidence to me that we are not ready for this. We can try again when you guys are ready. Maybe me and my wife will go on our own."
So then my MIL responds with this! "ok, I'll go to counseling on my own too. Maybe our counselors can collaborate! I found one today (insert smiley face)!"
I tried my best to show the exchange...am I wrong for feeling like my MIL completely disrespected my husband's wishes and undermined him to get her way? My in laws do not want group therapy at all, which is what my husband was asking her for.
And when he told her they weren't ready, she went ahead and said she was going anyway and doing it how she wanted it! Also, since our marriage, my MIL has not sent more than 1 nice message in a row to my husband. If she tries to play nice, he will be very straight forward in saying things are not ok, and then she'll go off on him.
We find it very sus that all of the sudden she is texting all nice and sending smiley faces as if we're all besties just because she found out I'm having a boy. Also, I am of the belief that we have no business trying counseling with them at this point. She said in her pie invite that she "did not want to talk about things" and then followed up by saying they didn't want to go to counseling with all of us in a room together.
I believe she wants to go to counseling alone so that she can get validated. She also pretended to care about my husband's choice in a counselor, but then went and found her own! UGGGGHH.
I'm so irritated by how she inserts herself and acts like she can just waltz back in like she didn't punch my husband, threaten to ruin our wedding, call me vulgar names, ban me from her house, throw hissy fits, intentionally try to come between us, and totally manipulate my husband (to name a few offenses from the last year)! Am I overreacting??!
FOURTH UPDATE:
First, some good news! Our little one is due in just 8 weeks and is doing very well. We are very excited and can't wait to welcome our baby into the world. He is already so loved! Second, the bad news. My MIL has reached an all time high of absurdity, gaslighting, and manipulation. To keep it brief, I'll do bullet points to outline the last few months:
1) My MIL invited us over for pie 2 days after Thanksgiving on the pretense that we would just act like nothing ever happened and go back to normal.
2) My husband rejected the invite and made it clear that we HAD to talk things out and we couldn't pretend like the last year didn't happen. He asked if they would be willing to go to family counseling with us. They refused.
3) My MIL instead tells my husband that she will go to counseling alone. My husband, afraid that she is just going to use this as a weapon, tells her very plainly that if she goes to counseling for her, it would have nothing to do with fixing things with us.
4) Christmas comes and goes and she invites us over 2 more times. Both times my husband very bluntly repeated that we would not be resuming a relationship with them until we sat down with a counselor to talk with all 4 of us.
(She of course did not like this and gave up once I responded on my husbands phone to repeat the same thing he had been saying) My husband told her that me and him *might* go to counseling alone in January.
5) January is silent. We did not end up going to counseling cause...idk...we're busy and they're not our top priority. Shocking, I know.
6) First week of February, my FIL reaches out to my husband to ask how our counseling is going and says they are "eager to fix things." My husband explains that we didn't go to counseling yet, and even when we do it does not mean that any progress will be made (we don't know what the counselor will advise us to do with our situation).
Long story short, my FIL spends a week's worth of text messages insulting my husband, calling him names, blaming us for our relationship not being fixed yet, and trying to guilt him into feeling sorry for them.
My FIL literally said to my husband "consider your mother's feelings and effort here" (because she went to counseling and is trying to use it to manipulate my husband). It has also been relayed to us through the grapevine that my MIL is "depressed" and "in a really low place" and she's just so distraught all the time.
7) My husband told my FIL a week ago that we would start counseling soon (only me and my husband) and let them know if/when we receive any advice on how to proceed forward. My FIL's words were "I'll go to counseling if that's what it takes to fix this, but I don't want to go."
No matter how we word it, they don't seem to understand that we want to see a change in behavior from both of them...a change in how they talk to us...and a willingness to hear us out...and at least a baseline acknowledgement that they have done us wrong.
They display none of these things and are still convinced that the best option is to just drop everything and act like it never happened cause that's what grown-ups do (yes, they actually said that).
8) I scheduled us a counselor appointment and our first session is this Thursday (keep in mind, it has only been a week since the convo my husband had with FIL).
9) My MIL reached out to my husband yesterday morning to ask us how counseling is going..!? She also wanted to know when they were needed to join the sessions..?! My husband told her that we haven't gone yet, and that as he has previously stated over 10 times to both of them, we are doing counseling alone for the time being.
10) Here's the craziest message I think she's sent to date. She responded to my husband by saying: "Well can I ask when your first session is? I was really hoping that you would join my sessions in December, and then that you'd have been going in January.
I don't want to be pushy, but we are so eager to fix things. We've waited a long time. It's hard because we want to give you guys your space, but knowing all the stress of new marriage, pregnancy, and someday baby, we know how much we're needed and want to alleviate any stresses for you. We remember what it's like and love you very much."
*ahem.* Needless to say...I'm amazed at this woman's gull. She knows how much she's needed? Girl, this baby is ours, not yours. We are so disturbed and disappointed. It's as we suspected, she's been attempting to fix things all of the sudden because she wants our baby.
She's devastated and depressed, not because she doesn't have her son or DIL in her life, but because she can't get her hands on their baby. I am so appalled and alarmed...Needless to say they are not going to be anywhere near the baby and they've only dug themselves a deeper hole.
Me and my husband are going to counseling and I hoping we can get some real help on how to navigate dealing with narcissistic people. For the record, me and my husband have been trying to work things out with them since last April (2024) and they have met every attempt with name calling, insults, manipulation, gaslighting, and just toxic behavior.
And now, my MIL is trying to say that she's waited a long time for this?! In August of last year she said to us "we are happier not talking to liars." Then she found out through the grapevine that we were expecting a few weeks later...and suddenly wanted us in her life.
It's so disgusting. I'm not really looking for advice here, more just ranting. I can't believe there are people in this world who literally make up their own reality. I am amazed that this woman thinks she will be allowed anywhere near our baby...better yet, that she thinks we need her to help raise it.
It's like she thinks we're 12. And for the record, the most stressful thing about our new marriage (just celebrated 1 year!), and my pregnancy, has been DEALING WITH THEM.
FIFTH UPDATE:
Hey there! My last post had people asking for updates still so here goes: Our baby boy is now 6 months old. We had a safe labor and delivery and parenthood has been the sweetest gift.
My last update was around last February, when my in-laws were reaching out to try and "fix things" because I was due with our baby in only a few months. We told them that we were going to counseling on our own to get advice about our situation, and that we'd let them know as soon as we had anything to tell.
We have realized that my in laws don't read each other's private texts to us and it often causes them to contradict each other or inadvertently tell on each other. To try to keep everybody on the same page, my husband put us in a group chat (all 4 of us).
My MIL texted incessantly to ask for updates and would ignore/be cold with me any time I'd respond in this group chat. My FIL then tried to reach out to my husband privately to get him to talk to him alone. My husband refused and said that we need all 4 of us in any kind of discussion we have.
What happened next is crazy...We scheduled counseling for ourselves as soon as we told them we would. The counselor scheduled a week out, and my MIL had already texted once at this point. She was super nosy and wanted to know which day it was and gave a little speech about how eager they were to fix things.
Once we had our first session, she texted first AGAIN and asked if we were ready for them to join (for those who didn't read the whole story, they had rejected group counseling 4 months before this because they said my husband was "usurping power" by asking them to go with us).
When I texted her back and told her that we still weren't sure when we'd have them join, as we'd only just had one session and there was a lot of info to give the counselor, she didn't respond to me. My FIL then texted my husband privately (you know, as a mature act of defiance) and told him he was spoiled and that's why we wanted to talk things through before we rebuilt.
My FIL told my husband that my MIL wasn't doing well and that he should have sympathy for how much she wants to fix things. (side note: my MIL was telling all of the extended family at this time that she was thinking about checking herself into a mental institution because she was just so distraught over the broken family).
When my husband didn't budge our position of needing them to at least have a respectful conversation with us about everything that had happened, and continued to happen, my FIL said we were "future faking" and "stone-walling."
The very next morning, on March 3rd, my FIL texted in the group chat: "After yet another sleepless night, your mother and I have decided it is best for us to sever ties. Your mother hasn't been doing well the last month, and we have taken more than we can take."
We didn't respond, because we knew that's what they wanted: a response. And we just proceeded to go to counseling where all of our concerns about them were validated. They actually let us be for 4 months. At this point, it was June.
Now I know all of you are going to scold me, but I was 6 weeks post-partum at this point and was really struggling with the reality of our situation with them. I decided to try a new approach, and I reached out to my MIL. I texted something like: "Hey there, I was wondering if you'd be willing to call me.
I've been thinking about you recently and I hate the way things are." She responded with: "What are we going to talk about?" I responded, "I thought I'd let you talk first. You could ask me any questions and tell me your feelings, and then I could do the same. I was hoping we could try to have a constructive conversation about the last year a half."
She then told me that it is against her boundaries to talk about anything that had happened in the past and as long as we didn't talk about that, I could call her. Long story short, we got into this big argument where she told me that she wasn't responsible for our emotions and we just needed to forgive them and move on.
She said she will never let anyone violate her boundary again and that they "tried harder than they ever should have" to fix their relationship with us. Then, about a month and a half ago, I passed them at the grocery store. I was coming out of the store as they were walking in, and by the time I noticed them they were looking straight ahead with scowls on their faces, ignoring me.
My MIL, however, glanced over to get her first glimpse of our baby, and she scowled at him too. Not even a week later, my FIL texted my husband asked to have a "Father-son" talk. He tried to get my husband to meet him at the lake, to which my husband promptly refused.
My husband expressed his hesitation to meet him in person and offered to find an alternative, and my FIL said "let me know when you're no longer hesitant" and that was it.
I am so astounded, now more than ever, at their unwillingness to meet us on the middle on anything...and then the fact that they say we're the ones making demands and lying! It's insane. We'll see how the holiday season goes...I have a feeling that their wrath is stronger than ever.
But...I am 4 months pregnant with baby #2 and they don't know yet. When that comes out...I have a feeling they'll be back. It's such a sad thing...and it's so unfortunate to know what they're missing out on by choice.