Woman asks for advice about fiancé's female 'best friend'; says it's 'unhealthy.' Updated!

'I am uncomfortable with the relationship between my fiancée and his best friend/bandmate, and I think it may have ruined our chance of being together.'

I've been with my fiance Joe for a couple of years now. We have a great relationship - he's funny and talented and we have a lot of fun together but there's always been one big issue: Natalie. Joe and Nat are really, really close friends. It borders on unhealthy codependency for SURE.

When we met they were living together too, but she was out of the country so I didn't meet her until we'd been together a couple months. They also work together (artists/musicians). When we started dating, Joe gave me a disclaimer about them and their close relationship, but I didn't really know what I was getting into.

Once I met her I understood it. She's the prettiest person I've ever seen in my life. I heard a lot about her, but no one told me she looked like a f**king supermodel. It was jarring too because Joe is just average. They started writing music again together and performing which meant a lot of time alone.

I also was under the impression that their 'band' involved multiple people, but it's JUST the two of them. Natalie always invited me for practice and whatnot but tbh being around them made me feel like a third wheel. Then I saw them perform and for some reason they decided to cover this song which felt like a slap in the face to me?

Especially given the context of the movie. It's NOT even their genre. And I was extra upset because there's that line 'you can always come in my backdoor' and we have issues because I don't like [doing that], and she even bent over and gave a lil wink and it made me so f**king mad.

Joe like laughed it off and said the song was funny and gets a good crowd response. And also they're AFFECTIONATE. I mean they're not kissing each other but always close.

Well anyway, she ended up traveling a lot for a long period of time for some good career opportunity. I had to talk Joe out of joining her and things got a lot better with us. We even got engaged and it was great! Then for xmas we went to his home country so I could meet his family and things went sideways as f**k.

First off... Nat was in EVERY family photo. Going back YEARS! Then his mom was asking about Nat and later saying she was going to be out to visit next week. Joe had a bit too much to drink at this point and got emotional about that saying he wished he would have known because he would have changed OUR plans.

I pulled him aside and told him I wasn't comfortable with how intertwined she was with his family, especially if we were going to get married. I asked if something could be done about that, and he LAUGHED in my face and told me that I could be the one to try to bring that up with his mom. So, I did. And his mom looked at me like I slapped her, and then the whole family got upset.

Joe got really mad at me and we left. Apparently she was a foreign exchange student or smth and they were immediately best friends. They were weird kids and didn't have other friends before each other. Every year they alternated staying with their families, between Ireland and Germany.

I never knew about this but there were things, like we were watching a movie once and a character was speaking German and Joe was able to translate. When I asked him wtf he speaks German? He gave me a weird look and was like 'yeah that's where Nat is from.'

Then when they were teenagers and the two were in Ireland, Nat's family was killed back in her country and so she stayed there with his family until they moved out TOGETHER. And they've basically been side by side since for 15+ YEARS!! They lived together and went to school together, and then lived together and worked together, since they were like TWELVE.

Apparently there was one school year their parents decided not to put them together and they both reacted so hostile and began acting out so much that their parents gave in.

Idk why I didn't know this and started to wonder what else. Asked if they slept together... And yes they sure did!! About 6 years ago for like a year. Then one night Nat kissed a guy and Joe beat the sh*t out of him. They got in fight and decided sex was complicating things and then just... stopped?

But then they also hooked up a few times since. I freaked out. After all the 'she's like my sister' BULLSH*T. Joe insisted it didn't mean anything but WTF. He kept saying it was purely physical and there were no feelings, but if there weren't feelings how did things get complicated then??

Well regardless we managed to talk it out, but didn't go back to his parents. He argued that they were barely even friends anymore since he hasn't seen her in so long, and I did such a 'good job' tearing them apart. I told him he asked ME to marry him and should act like it. We fought for like three days until he got sick of it.

Last week he gets a call from her. I hear him get upset and argue then he starts to leave, I ask him wtf. He just said Natalie's in trouble and he need to go to her and LEAVES. Just hopped on a plane and left, just like that. If I wouldn't have asked he probably wouldn't have even said a word to me.

So naturally I was pissed. And I started drinking and sent some angry messages. And I basically told him that if he was going to leave like that and run to her, he made it clear he was choosing her over me, and he shouldn't bother coming home.

His response was just 'ok' and that he would come back soon to get his stuff, which really really pissed me off. Well yesterday I talked to our mutual friend Chloe, who told me that Natalie was in a baaad situation and called Joe from the hospital. I felt kinda bad then and wondered why Joe didn't tell me that detail so I called him.

It wasn't a good conversation. I told him I understood why he left, but since she's okay now, he should come home. He disagreed, and f**king flipped OUT on me. Said that if I didn't 'keep them apart' and put distance between them, she might have opened up to him about the sh*t she was dealing with and he could have helped. He called me manipulative and jealous.

I do feel bad but I still think I didn't do anything that bad. Chloe told me she'd be surprised if Joe wants to work things out... I love him but this situation is so weird, I just want some advice, is our relationship salvageable? Is what I did that bad? Should we even bother, or should I just let him and Natalie do their weird not-a-real-couple bull**it?

EDIT: I JUST FOUND OUT SHE TRIED TO BE WITH HIM AND HE REJECTED HER?! And he didn't want to ruin their friendship?!???? I'm so f**king CONFUSED.

Here's what people had to say to OP:

TheElusiveGoose10 says:

He's gone babe. He's made his decision. No need to try and go back when he's made his choice about Nat and you and he chose her.

I know this sucks but best to focus on yourself, your hobbies, your friends and family. Find that support and you'll be ok. But it still doesn't make the pain go away. Maybe if you decide to drink have someone sober around you, that why you don't make bad, hasty decisions. You got this.

ThrowRA62946294 OP responded:

Thank you. I think I needed to hear this. ❤️

y2klover2000 writes:

Yeah I’m sorry op… that really just sucks so much but honestly you deserve better. You deserve someone to pick you and you’ll find it. Do not try to get him back- let him go and move on. Whatever they have is weird and honestly good riddance!!

throwaway7314288 writes:

You deserve so much more than some average guy who's pining over a woman who doesn't want him. The fact is, if she ever decides she wants him, she'll have him. And that's not your fault, it's his.

Update from OP the next day:

Hi everyone, it's me, the one from yesterday's post about my now ex fiance. I just want to first say that I really, REALLY appreciate everyone's input and suggestions, it helped me so much and gave me that push to finally address what I already knew what needed to be done. A lot of people asked for updates and a lot has happened in the last 24hrs.

Well first off, I was angry and emotional yesterday and I reached out to Sam, who used to date Natalie. I figured if anyone could relate to exactly wtf I was dealing with, it would be him. So we met up for some drinks (I'm not looking for a rebound type anything just wanted someone who really understands), and holy sh*t.

Apparently he asked way more questions and Natalie was way more open with him than Joe was with me, and it filled in some blanks but also made things more confusing. Sam read the whole post and comments then we started talking. First thing he clarified was the time they were sleeping together.

So, per Sam, they were hooking up secretly for that year, and from what Natalie told Sam (God this is tiring), it started as a way to relieve tension/boredom. The first time happened during a fight (which is so on brand for them that if I wasn't so angry I'd laugh at that).

They agreed to keep emotions out of it and just have fun, apparently Natalie said the sex was incredible because they're so close already, which is why they didn't just write it off as a one time mistake.

The reason the fight that ended things happened is Natalie was going to bring this other guy as her date with her to the party and she made a joke like 'unless you wanna finally make this official lol' and Joe's response was like, 'nooo i can't ruin our friendship like that' (paraphrasing... maybe hah), so Natalie went and brought that guy with and then Joe got drunk and tried to kill him so... yeah.

I don't know why Joe chose to leave out the details that he did. Tbh it probably would have made me feel a little more comfortable. So he left out those details, but Natalie told Sam those details. And admitted to Sam when they broke up that no one will ever mean more to her than Joe. I f**king applaud Sam for not blowing that up and letting everyone know... I'm not that nice.

You guys will be proud of me... after a few drinks with Sam I took the advice that a lot of people gave me. But instead of just sending my last post to Joe, I sent it to our entire group chat that all of our friends are on, including Joe and Natalie. And then I waited.

Most people didn't respond in the chat but I started getting a lot of private texts from friends. But after a little while, Natalie responded, and I'll just copy her response here:

'Emma I was going to talk to you privately but since you decided doing things this way was your best option I will follow suit.'

'1. 'Joe is just average': this is how you talk about a man you are supposed to love? Especially considering he is NOT just average?'

'2. 'I had to talk Joe out of joining her': and it meant he missed out on a great opportunity just to appease you and your concerns. I even tried to invite you to come with us on the tour. You also mention him getting a REAL job and are rude about his talent. You have never supported him.'

'3. Ya you came to ONE of our performances the whole time and hated that song and we stopped playing it even though you never came to another one.'

'4. I am SORRY you didn't know the details of our friendship. I have tried to include you and befriend you and build a relationship with you but you were too jealous to accept my effort but maybe we could have talked about things and made you feel comfortable. You didnt even like to hear him talk about me.'

'You also made the implication I did something drastic to get his attention to make him come out here und that is cruel considering circumstances. I wish I would have been around more so I would have realized sooner that he deserves so much better than you.'

I was honestly shocked to get that response and I was wondering why the hell she didn't address the important stuff? Like being in love, or the fact they've had sex? But anyway chaos kind of broke out in the chat after that and I didn't respond with anything, just sat back and watched it all blow up.

Well, Joe called me a little while after that, and assured me he was alone. He was crying and apologizing to me but not like begging for me back at all. He basically confirmed what I thought and everyone else was saying.

He was apologizing for hurting me and straight up admitted he's totally in love with her and has been forever, they were even each other's first kiss. I told him I know she wanted a relationship with him, Sam told me, so WTF was he doing with me?

He said he didn't realize the extent of her feelings for him, thought it was just because the sex was good, he didn't want to admit he was madly in love with her and basically he was worried that if they tried a relationship, and things ended badly because she realized she could do better, their friendship would be ruined.

He said their friendship was important enough to him that he'd prefer being quietly in love with her forever to trying something and ruining it.

And that's kinda where I came in, I guess. He says he was in major denial about his feelings for her and he hoped it would be easier to have her as 'just a friend' if he tried to put his energy into a different relationship. I cried and yelled a lot and called him a lot of names. I'm still shaking. He admitted it was a horrible thing to do to me and says he never wanted to hurt me. Basically he's insecure, and it caused this whole f**king sh*t storm.

Obviously things are completely done. From what it sounds like, with Joe saying he 'didn't realize the extent of her feelings', it sure sounds like he does now, so maybe seeing this post made her fess up.

Good for them, I guess. I f**king hate both of them and I hope they make each other insane. I've thrown out a lot of his s**t and instead of giving the ring back I'm gonna go sell it and do something fun.

EDIT: A lot of people are calling them cheaters but I would like to clear up that I'm 99.9% sure neither of them cheated on anyone (aside from their constant emotional affair). Some of my wording might be confusing and I apologize.

I've calmed down a bit and I'm pretty worried about Natalie tbh, I feel like they're going to be together and he's going to be all crazy and controlling and things are going to get really messy, the emotions with these two are way too dramatic... she's so lovestruck and blinded by his admission of his feelings that she's going to defend him to the end... Poor girl.

Here's what people had to say after the update:

inkiesForLife_05 writes:

I really feel for you OP, I had an ex that put me through this crap too. It turns out that all along he had feelings for his best friend of 10 years, then he ended up cheating on me with her. When I was pregnant with his baby. Karma does come back around. They won't last. There's too much history there now, and it will fail dismally because of it.

SnowWhiteCampCat writes:

What a happy ending!

glo427 writes:

Good on you, OP, for getting out of this toxic cesspool of a relationship. Your ex is pathetic, and I’m sure if Natalie and he do make it official, it will be a train wreck due to his insecurities and her delusions. Best wishes

Update from OP 5 days after the last post:

'My ex-fiance had a LONG emotional affair that started before we met.'

I'm not sure what I'm posting for now, I'm a little drunk and really sad and angry, and most of my friend group were friends with them first... and after the initial drama, most of those friends have already switched to thinking 'it's about time they're finally together!'

My family isn't too supportive - not in a bad way, that's just the nature of my family, we get uncomfortable talking about emotional things. Which is probably why I willfully ignored the issues with my fiance tbh.

I'm at a loss. He hasn't even picked up his stuff yet. I've been drinking and crying and obsessing over every detail of this whole f**ked up situation. I feel like an IDIOT! Why did I stay for so long when he always put her before me?

Why didn't I see what everyone else apparently did? He was just with me because he thought it would help him move past his feelings for HER. I feel so used, and unloved. I do have plans to get into therapy (for multiple reasons).

What do I do? I know it's only been a few days... but... when does this start to not hurt sooo badly?

I loved him so much. Even when he flew out to her and abandoned me because she needed him, when I got upset and we fought, I still thought, 'how do I fix this?' I'd be lying if I said I hadn't considered calling him, but it wouldn't do any good.

Now that he has her he'll never let her go. Not even that I want him BACK... I just don't know. I've never gone through this. There's an actual aching in my chest, and I know the drinking is bad, I just... ugh idk I'm so f**king hurt.

Here's what people had to say about OP's second update:

Belf17 writes:

First don't drink it will make you more depressed.

Second, distract yourself with positive stuff, go out with 'real' friends, meet new people, try new things, watch a good series or movies, go do some physical activity (seriously it's better than most antidepressant).

Third, accept the pain, accept the loss, accept that you got no choice but to move on, acceptance is key to moving on, it doesn't mean that you forgive or that it's okay but you need to accept reality to face it. If you're face to face with a bear you can't ignore reality you got to accept it and face it. Here the bear is betrayal, sadness, etc...

ThrowRA62946294 OP responded:

Thank you ? I know the drinking isn't great just wanted to numb the feelings a little, but you're right it's made it worse.

Speaking of, does anyone have any good series or movies for a distraction? Like something without plots about love and whatnot, I'm exhausted, I can't deal with that s**t right now. I tried to watch Knives Out for the first time and then there was the stuff about the affair and I shut it off tbh.

34590347fga writes:

This may not be easy to hear at this time, but you dodged a bullet here. Think of it this way, anyone who was with him, did not stand a chance up against her and it was not that you are not good enough. His problem was that he wasn’t honest with himself. How could he be honest with anyone else if he couldn’t admit it to himself, so again, that was not YOUR fault either.

Imagine yourself married to this partner years down the road and then you found out. I am not sure how much time you invested in your relationship, I don’t think you said but honestly, until we meet the one (yes there are multiple people out there for us), everything and everyone else is practice.

Grieve, clean yourself up and concentrate making yourself happy. Nothing is more attractive than a self reliant person and YOU WILL GET THERE. He was practice for you. It will hurt a bit for a while but don’t dwell on it and when you do, we are here. Be well, it gets better if you let it.

ThrowRA62946294 OP responded:

It was about 2 years that we were together, which doesn't seem that long, but I moved to a new state all by myself and he was one of the first people I met, first guy I lived with, etc... It just feels like a really important time in my life that was wasted. I'm really struggling to not view it as 'wasted time' and instead as a lesson learned.

Mostly I feel like such an idiot. The signs were all there and just screaming at me. They made jokes about being like 'a married couple without the sex'... then I found out they had sex ? (before we met I should say, i don't think there was physical cheating at all just a hardcore emotional affair).