Speaking with New York Times reporter Nicholas Kristof at the Women in the World Summit, Hillary Clinton touched on a broad range of issues in her first interview since the November election.

She left little question about her stance on Russian hacking and the role it played in her loss, on Syria and her regret that the United States didn't do more during the Obama administration, and on Donald Trump and misogyny (and the confluence of the two).

She noted that Vladimir Putin didn't like her, "although he did shake hands with me." She left it at that, although the shot at Donald Trump's interaction with Chancellor of Germany Angela Merkel was lost on nobody.


Hillary Clinton then elaborated on how misogyny and sexism affected her long, tortured run for president in 2016. Kristof asked her "about the research that some social scientists have pointed to that women can be perceived as either as likable or as competent leaders, but not as both."

Here's Clinton's response, via the Huffington Post:

We really need you, and we need more young people and we particularly need more young women. However, having said that, probably one of the first things I would say to them: Yeah, be ready. It is a not a new phenomenon but it feels new and painful every time it happens to you.

Many academics have written about it. It’s a pretty simple but unfortunate phenomenon. With men, success and ambition are correlated with likability, so the more successful a man is, the more likable he becomes! With a woman, guess what? It’s the exact opposite. So the more successful and therefore ambitious a woman is, the less likable she becomes. That’s the inverse correlation that lies at the heart of a lot of the attacks and the misogyny.


Clinton's explanation for why her success as Secretary of State didn't suffer from the same dynamic was equally depressing: "It was a job I was asked to do by a man."

Hillary Clinton then got creative explaining the issue, invoking Typhoid Mary—a 19th century woman who was quarantined against her will and experimented on for her suspected disease, becoming a pariah.

"What happened?! Oh my gosh, by the time they were finished with me I was Typhoid Mary. And poor Mary. I mean, she didn't deserve it either, when you go back and look at the history. It really did verify that research."